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XE RSM generation difference

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jayco12
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XE RSM generation difference

Postby jayco12 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:08 pm

Hello all,
Is there any way know to tell the differences in the
XE RSM Mics gen1 gen2 gen3, is there a way to tell them apart such dates manufactured or markings ?

Thanks in advance

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:38 pm

I know this doesn't answer your question, but this topic was on here or on CS about 9 months ago. About five of us chimed in with M documentation and field observations, and, it pretty much covered everything...with brochures, pics, and all. It would take a considerable amount of time to reconstruct the scene of the crime. Anything quick we can help with? - Jeff

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:40 pm

If you're an MOL account holder, go look at the FSB. It was M's first attempt to point our the differences and 'challenges' of each generation.

sjxts3000
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby sjxts3000 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:24 pm

If you're a firefighter, you'll want gen 3 (better drainage, reduced freezing, etc). If not, the gen 1 or 2 will work just fine for you.
Gen 1 doesn't have the bright LED that you can turn on/off. Gen 2 and 3 do.
The easiest way to tell a Gen 3 from the others is the top emergency button has the drain holes on the rim of the button guard.
See pic links below:

Gen 1 and Gen 2: http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/erac1/IMG_0483.JPG
Gen 3: https://eradiostore.files.wordpress.com ... l_0050.jpg

jayco12
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby jayco12 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:51 am

Great thanks for all the replys been very helpful

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:12 am

sjxts3000 summarized it well. There is also a high temp and standard temp coiled cord. That changes the model number of the speaker-mic. If I remember correctly, that came out right about Gen 3 time. It was in response to FD customers who wanted the cord to handle the heat closer to the rest of the mic's ability to do so. Mics were surviving interior attacks only to have their cord fail and leaving the firefighter with decreased comms. It's substantially better, but nothing is impervious to extreme heat.

For the last year and a half, they've been shipping (what I call) a Gen 3.5. It has a threaded post in the belt clip mount that allows installation of a Motorola mobile microphone hangup 'disc' (sold separately) for those who use the FDNY strap with Motorola mobile microphone hangup clip installed. It keeps your speaker-mic securely on the strap and not dangling somewhere south of your bunker pants. Nobody on the last post was able to identify anything else that changed with the Gen 3.5.

There is an early FSB (I'd have to find my printed copy) that helps you identify Gen 1 and Gen 2 based upon a few minor physical characteristics such as location of the mic holes (high, middle, low) in their recessed dimples.

sjxts3000
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby sjxts3000 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:26 am

Ah yes, I forgot about the button thread on the clip. I've seen more of these "3.5's" than not.

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:31 am

The 3.5 with high temp cord is all I will carry, or let my guys/gals carry. Safety! Of course, the budget drives everything.

jayco12
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby jayco12 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:55 pm

Also How do i read the date code on the mic ? the one i have i know is a gen 3 it has the different emergency button, the date code on it 40/13 if that is the date code? what year did the gen3 get released ?

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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby sjxts3000 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:03 am

40th week of 2013

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:15 am

I'll be in my inventory of APX XE RSMs later today. I'll peruse the date codes I have across the four versions. There is no document in userland that defines the manufacturing dates between each version. Maybe Wikileaks can get us a copy from on-campus. :) We had Gen 3s shipping with new radios while Gen 2s were still coming out of M Parts orders. It would have been a lot closer to M standard had they kept with the 'A', 'B', 'C' revision model number suffix coding. I honestly think they didn't want to publicize the issues with the early models and a revision change would have highlighted that.

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:20 am

My point being that that they're all still 'A' model numbers after six or seven years of manufacturing with pretty moderate changes made numerous times.

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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:48 am

I found my printed copy of the full color 3-page data sheet M put out highlighting the differences between the Gens (one page per Gen). Well done!

Okay, high temp cords were introduced in the Gen 2 period.

Mic holes are low in the dimples on Gen 3. Mic holes are high on Gen 2 (might be wrong on this one). Mic holes are high or mid on Gen 1.

If memory serves me well, Gen 2 was a very short-lived period.

I haven't perused all of my XE RSMs yet, but here is what I have on date codes so far.

Gen 1...03/13
Gen 3...11/14, 12/14, 18/14, 20/14
Gen 3.5...19/15

JeffFireRadio
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby JeffFireRadio » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:50 am

Update...I have now seen a Gen 2 with the mic holes low on the dimples.

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motorola_otaku
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby motorola_otaku » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:19 am

I've used all three generations of mics... aside from the lack of a flashlight in Gen 1 mics they're essentially identical electronically and all have uniformly excellent audio when the audio profiles in the radios are configured properly. As an aside I would strongly advise against using Xtreme_1-Sided noise reduction if the mic may be taken on and off of the radio... we found that it unacceptably muffled the audio when used on a radio with no XE mic.

The high-temp cord can be ordered separately. Its P/N is 30009402002.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
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2. Presence of mind

tvsjr
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby tvsjr » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:27 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:I've used all three generations of mics... aside from the lack of a flashlight in Gen 1 mics they're essentially identical electronically and all have uniformly excellent audio when the audio profiles in the radios are configured properly. As an aside I would strongly advise against using Xtreme_1-Sided noise reduction if the mic may be taken on and off of the radio... we found that it unacceptably muffled the audio when used on a radio with no XE mic.

The high-temp cord can be ordered separately. Its P/N is 30009402002.

Since you've probably spent some time, what audio settings did you end up with? Are you running different profiles for fireground vs. dispatch?

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motorola_otaku
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:54 am

I changed the names of "Default" and "Loud Audio" to "Analog" and "Digital" respectively and made the following tweaks.
Under Radio Wide/Audio Options, TX Digital/Analog Balance needs to be set to "Per Profile" and Audio Configuration Level needs to be set to Enhanced. Expert view is required to access all of the fields.

Code: Select all

Analog Profile
All settings identical for Radio and Accessory columns.
-Noise Reduction Group Setting to Custom
-Background Noise Reduction Level to Aggressive
-Wind Noise Reduction Level to Normal
-PASS Alarm Filter checked
-Gain/Sensitivity Group Setting to Custom
-Uncheck Analog AGC
-Leave Digital & Securenet AGC Checked
-AGC Gain Control Output to -3
-AGC Gain Control Total to +12
-Analog Fixed Gain to +3
-Audio Equalization to XTS
-Maximum Audio Volume left at +255
-Minimum Audio Volume to +5
-Alert Tone Volume settings left at default
-Audio Equalization Group Setting to Custom
-Analog, Digital, and Securenet High Frequency Bands to +3, all others at 0


Code: Select all

Digital Profile
All settings identical for Radio and Accessory columns.
-Noise Reduction Group Setting to Custom
-Background Noise Reduction Level to Aggressive
-Wind Noise Reduction Level to Normal
-PASS Alarm Filter checked
-Gain/Sensitivity Group Setting to Custom
-AGC checked for Analog, Securenet, and Digital
-AGC Gain Control Output to -3
-AGC Gain Control Total to +12
-Audio Equalization to XTS
-Maximum Audio Volume left at +255
-Minimum Audio Volume to +5
-Alert Tone Volume settings left at default
-Audio Equalization Group Setting to Custom
-Analog, Digital, and Securenet High Frequency Bands to +3, all others at 0


No custom profiles for dispatch versus fireground, just analog and digital with the only change being no AGC for analog. We initially tried Xtreme_1-Sided for fireground with the aforementioned disappointing results. I'm not sure how the PASS alarm tone cadence changes made in the latest NFPA 1982 revision will affect the hard-coded PASS alarm filter, we haven't upgraded ours yet.

There are some other custom tweaks we had to make to the APX8500 mobile to get it to sound right. I'll post those later.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
1. Ability to use fine motor skills
2. Presence of mind

ME801
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby ME801 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:26 am

Thanks for the info on the settings, were going to see how they work for us.

resqguy911
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby resqguy911 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:13 am

All the noise cancelling settings in the profile are ignored when using an XE or XP RSM. lso, wether or not you use an RSM, the PASS Alarm filter is looking for frequencies, not cadence so the 1982 update should have no effect (so we were told last week by the subscriber team). Of course I'm waiting for that in writing...
"TDMA = digital and same great taste, half the bits"

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motorola_otaku
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:10 am

resqguy911 wrote:All the noise cancelling settings in the profile are ignored when using an XE or XP RSM.

Source?

I can tell you the settings I posted above make a noticeable difference when used in conjunction with XE RSMs. We initially fielded our radios with Xtreme_1-Sided noise reduction enabled and they sounded awful, so after receiving multiple complaints we sat down and did some pretty extensive controlled-environment testing using XE and non-XE radios across a variety of firmware revisions, with and without XE RSMs. We even went into the Global Noise Reduction List and played with those values, using numbers pulled from different models across different CPS/codeplug revisions. The above-posted tables were what we found to work best across both types of APX with and without XE mics attached, with R13 and up firmware required to enable the advanced audio equalization settings.

The only caveat is that we only tested with 7000s... we don't have any 6000s in the fleet. 8000XEs seem to work equally well with these same settings.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
1. Ability to use fine motor skills
2. Presence of mind

resqguy911
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby resqguy911 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:17 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:
resqguy911 wrote:All the noise cancelling settings in the profile are ignored when using an XE or XP RSM.

Source?

I can tell you the settings I posted above make a noticeable difference when used in conjunction with XE RSMs. We initially fielded our radios with Xtreme_1-Sided noise reduction enabled and they sounded awful, so after receiving multiple complaints we sat down and did some pretty extensive controlled-environment testing using XE and non-XE radios across a variety of firmware revisions, with and without XE RSMs. We even went into the Global Noise Reduction List and played with those values, using numbers pulled from different models across different CPS/codeplug revisions. The above-posted tables were what we found to work best across both types of APX with and without XE mics attached, with R13 and up firmware required to enable the advanced audio equalization settings.

The only caveat is that we only tested with 7000s... we don't have any 6000s in the fleet. 8000XEs seem to work equally well with these same settings.


MSI has said on numerous occasions that the noise cancelling inherent to the XE & XP RSMs completely ignores any profile changes. The audio tweaks are not affected which you've already noticed, so you can edit those to suit your needs (XTS sounding and whatnot).
"Please note all External Mic Noise Reduction is DISABLED in the radio when the XE RSM is attached."
https://www.motorolasolutions.com/conte ... ctices.pdf
"TDMA = digital and same great taste, half the bits"

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motorola_otaku
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Re: XE RSM generation difference

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 pm

There's a big difference between external mic noise reduction being disabled and "all the noise cancelling settings in the profile are ignored when using an XE or XP RSM." :) Wind noise reduction and AGC settings are critical for noise cancellation... and while we're on AGC, leaving it enabled on analog will result in annoyingly quiet audio, especially if you use the stock 0/+6 setting.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
1. Ability to use fine motor skills
2. Presence of mind


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