OT DTR question

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John G
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OT DTR question

Post by John G »

Please excuse this off topic question but I have had no luck elsewhere. What is the difference between the DTR 510 and DTR550? I see references to DTR410, 510, 610 and seperately, references to DTR550, 650. I understand that only the latest models have removable antennas. True?
Jim1348
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OT DTR question

Post by Jim1348 »

Look carefully at what is offered for sale. I think the DTR510/DTR610 are for the European market. I think the DTR550/DTR650 are for the US. As far as the antenna issue, I think you are correct as far as the most recent being removable. You may want to try a search on this site. They have been discussed here from time to time.
John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

I just bought a couple of the 510's off eBay. They are in Canada. I did locate the user's manual on line and couldn't see anything that looked like they wouldn't be suitable for use here. I don't really have a legitimate use for them, I just wanted to play around a little. I have a pretty good idea how they will work since I had one of the original Engenius cordless phones which had the long antenna and 900 milliwatts of power. The 510 must not be too popular since I got these for the minimum bid and was, in fact the only bidder. Kind of scares me, knowing how things are on eBay. One thing odd I noticed is that if you look up DTR battery, they are $34 to $52. If you look up the part number of the battery, they are also used on some Nextel phones, they are $7.95. Go figure.
John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

I see that the DTR510 and DTR550 both have the same FCC ID number, AZ489FT5842, which tells me the difference is features. I also found that all the web content I found for the 510 is dated around 2005. So, I assume that the DTR550 replaced the DTR510. The 510 even with the non replaceable stubby antenna and older feature set should be sufficient for my meager needs.
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wkr518
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wkr518 »

Motorola had different versions of DTR walkies.
DTR550/DTR650 for the Professional Radio Channel Partners, now is in the Radius/Commercial price pages.
DTR550 was the base model and 650 was marketed as the Manager model.The DTR550 for most part has been NLA for 6 months or more.

DTR410/510 etc were for the business markets such as CLS,RDU,CP125 resellers.You can buy DTR410 from Grainger but not the DTR650.

As for compatibility to older Nextel handsets that is correct. DTR battery is also for i700 Nextel phone.I charge my DTR in my vehicle with the i700 vehicle charger.
I can use the Nextel falcon series data cable to program all the DTRs also.

A canadian boardmember here, WaveTar I believe has sold many DTRs. I am slowly ramping DTR sales up due to narrowbanding for customers who only need onsite,in building coverage or small campus scenarios and do not want to buy CP200/CP185 or renew or narrowband their licenses.I have found them to be great for penetration where UHF 2/4 watts cannot get through, as we have lots of new construction going on lately in our region.

Hotels love them also, as they are compact and you can do the 1to1 callings and the earpieces keep guests from hearing the jabber talkers all day.
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John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

Thanks for the knowledge on DTR's. I will post a brief report on how they work for me after I have had some time to play. I want to take one up on the mountain to see if it interferes with my 900 repeater. I have a feeling it will to some small extent. I have ordered a programming cable. I downloaded the software but I read somewhere that it won't program all versions. I guess I'll just have to try it and see. I don't think I really even need the software for my use but I just wanted to see what it did. So, the 510 and 550 are pretty much the same? The user's manual seemed pretty much the same for both.
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wkr518
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wkr518 »

As for the 510 and 550 being the same, not 100% sure, haven't seen a 510 yet or played with it.
So no chance to check software compatibility neither
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John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

I noticed that if the battery is almost completely discharged, the radio will display "incompatible charger". I connected a variable supply to the contacts on the bottom and noticed that there is almost no current drawn for a few seconds, then it picks up to just over 300 mA. After a few more seconds, it goes into full charge. If this current is much over 700 mA., it displays the "incompatible charger" message. I lowered the current down to around 600 mA and partly charged the batteries. Then, I put them in a radio one at a time and charged them with the regular charger. I conducted a brief range test today by putting one on the deck at about 10 feet up and took the other for a walk I make often. The results were on the positive side of "about what I expected." I hit the other radio in a few places I didn't expect to but, in general, they fell out pretty much where every other 900 Mhz, low powered radio does. I didn't get the chance to check voice quality. I did notice that even with a freshly charged, high capacity battery, I didn't get much life. 19.5 Hours? I don't think so. I do like the fact that you know if the other radio is receiving before you are allowed to talk. I don't like the wait for the beeps and a couple of seconds more to get audio out the other end. I guess that is just the penalty you pay for "digital."
John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

My programming cable arrived today and I quickly hooked it up, hit "Read device" and got a message to the effect that my firmware was too old to support CPS. I guess I threw that money away. To eBay with it. One of my radios has a bad LCD. I asked the people at Wiscomm about a part number and was told that that part wasn't available. Do any of you official Motorola people here know if they sell the LCD assembly and how much one might cost? I am pretty sure it is the same as for some of the Nextel phones but I don't know which model or have any way to find that part number either.
RFguy
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by RFguy »

I know that you can upgrade the firmware on the 550/650 radios. Not sure if the same firmware will work on your 510's. I believe that we used to program all our 550/650's from the front keypad. We only started to use the CPS a year or two ago.

As for repair parts, Motorola doesn't supply any (to my knowledge).
John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

I did find a sheet on how to update the firmware. Also found there is a separate cable for doing so. It is USB, not serial. Couldn't find the flashtool, however. It's time to throw in the towel on this. I ordered a case front from Wiscomm but got a message saying it was on back order. I guess I can still use them as is. I did find a message on some Yahoo group where someone had flashed a 410 with 550 firmware and made it a 550 except for things that just weren't physically present on the 410. All very interesting but of no help without the flashtool and current firmware. Oh well.
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wavetar
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wavetar »

There is a very specific division for units which can be programmed with CPS, and those that can't.

The "Gen 1" units, which have the built-in antennas, cannot be programmed with CPS, nor can they be upgraded to do so...or at least that's the official statement from Motorola.

The "Gen 2" units, which have the removable antennas, were CPS programmable right out of the box. I believe the current DTR CPS is version 3 right now? I have never had any 'Gen 2' regardless of age tell me it's firmware was too old for the CPS, even the very earliest ones.

We do have some customers with a mixture, and we have to program the Gen 2 with CPS, then use the cloning cable to get the changes into the Gen 1 units, to avoid keypad programming.

I'm speaking of 550/650 units...I can't be 100% certain it applies to 410/510/whatever else, as we've never dealt with them.

As far as repair parts...the end-user flat rate repair cost is $150, and that typically gets you a brand new replacement unit in the box, with new charger & battery, from Motorola...so no parts is typically no big deal.
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

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John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

Thanks, Wavetar for the knowledge. I have ordered one of the mini keypads because I wanted to alias a name for the unit serial. I understand that can be done. I also want to set up one private group. That's about it. I wish mine had the removable antennas but the stubby ones should suffice for my needs. I have been looking at these for quite some time but thought them too pricey for something to just fool around with. I saw some of the 510s recently on eBay for auction with a very low starting bid. Turns out I was the only one who bid. I guess most folks who buy these want the 550 or 650 generation 2 models. One of the units had a bad LCD. I would like to get it replaced but $150 is about what I have in all 5 so I'll just keep it as a parts radio. I will put the programming cable on eBay since I can't use it for anything. I considered cutting the connector off and trying to use it for other radios but decided against that. I also have a pair of those eXRS radios that disappointed me pretty badly. I keep them around for the grandkids to play with. These things certainly have a lot of features, most of which I'll never use. All the beeping bothers me but I understand it can't be turned off so I'll just have to put up with it.
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wavetar
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wavetar »

The keypad programming is a bit of a pain, but certainly can be done. Our very first DTR customer bought 100+ units, and wanted 40+ talkgroups in them! I spent lots of time ensuring the programming was correct in the first two before cloning all the rest!

You could send the defective unit in for repair, hopefully you get a new 'Gen 2' unit back. As far as I know, they've always sent a new unit, I don't believe the depot even stocks repair parts. Maybe someone else here can say if they've had the same experience. Then you could use your programming cable & CPS to make changes in the new unit, and clone it into the rest.
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wkr518
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wkr518 »

Ive been searching for a decent nylon or leather carry case for the DTR550/650.Seen or found any?
I even tried some of the old Rocket Science branded Armor cases for the i700,no fit.
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John G
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by John G »

I don't know if Motorola offered a case or not. Mine have belt clips which I don't much care for. If they do offer a case, Wiscomm probably has it. I tried to order an LCD for one of mine and they said it was not available. I did order some case parts which were backordered. I kind of expected never to hear from them again but this morning, I got an email saying they had shipped. I found a keyboard on eBay for cheap and it seems to work even though it was listed as being for a Nextel phone. I feel sure the LCD I need is available as a part for a Nextel phone but I haven't been able to locate a cross reference for the part number. I still haven't programmed mine. The instructions don't seem very clear to me. I'm off next week so I hope have time to figure it out then. A nextel case would probably fit, if you could find the right one. But that's where the problem is. Finding enough cases in one spot to try them. If I end up carrying mine much, I'll probably want a case too. If I find one, I'll post what I got.
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escomm
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by escomm »

Bee Electronics has them in a nylon variety. Bee is an OEM supplier for Motorola, FWIW.
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wkr518
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wkr518 »

escomm wrote:Bee Electronics has them in a nylon variety. Bee is an OEM supplier for Motorola, FWIW.
The Bee DTR cases do not look to bad.Moto OEM cases are junk for the most part.
Thanks for the heads up
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Mr.X
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by Mr.X »

Sorry for the Necro-Bump, but there is not a lot of current information on these radios online.

Does anyone know where updated firmware and the flash software to update the firmware on a DTR550 can be found or purchased?
Mr.X
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by Mr.X »

John G wrote:I did find a sheet on how to update the firmware. Also found there is a separate cable for doing so. It is USB, not serial. Couldn't find the flashtool, however. It's time to throw in the towel on this. I ordered a case front from Wiscomm but got a message saying it was on back order. I guess I can still use them as is. I did find a message on some Yahoo group where someone had flashed a 410 with 550 firmware and made it a 550 except for things that just weren't physically present on the 410. All very interesting but of no help without the flashtool and current firmware. Oh well.
wavetar wrote:There is a very specific division for units which can be programmed with CPS, and those that can't.

The "Gen 1" units, which have the built-in antennas, cannot be programmed with CPS, nor can they be upgraded to do so...or at least that's the official statement from Motorola.

The "Gen 2" units, which have the removable antennas, were CPS programmable right out of the box. I believe the current DTR CPS is version 3 right now? I have never had any 'Gen 2' regardless of age tell me it's firmware was too old for the CPS, even the very earliest ones.

We do have some customers with a mixture, and we have to program the Gen 2 with CPS, then use the cloning cable to get the changes into the Gen 1 units, to avoid keypad programming.

I'm speaking of 550/650 units...I can't be 100% certain it applies to 410/510/whatever else, as we've never dealt with them.

As far as repair parts...the end-user flat rate repair cost is $150, and that typically gets you a brand new replacement unit in the box, with new charger & battery, from Motorola...so no parts is typically no big deal.
Just in case anyone still cares, I have the firmware, software, manuals and a lot of additional information about these radios on my site.
All DTR radios can be flashed to Gen3, even the Gen1 radios with the captive antennas, BTW.

What I've learned about the DTR radios
Jim1348
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OT DTR question

Post by Jim1348 »

I care. I have two of these and while I don't use them a lot, I want to know more. Thanks for the tip. I will have to find out what the Gen 1 to Gen 3 flash changes. It is probably on your website.
Mr.X
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by Mr.X »

The changes are detailed in the Rev3 Manual on my site.
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wkr518
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wkr518 »

so the DTR550 vers 1 gen 1 can be updated on firmware to enable CPS programming?
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Mr.X
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by Mr.X »

Yes. Follow the links in my posts.
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wavetar
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by wavetar »

Very nice work, glad you posted your results here. I'm not surprised that the "official" Motorola line that the Gen 1 couldn't be upgraded to a Gen 2/3 turned out to be untrue.
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Mr.X
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Re: OT DTR question

Post by Mr.X »

And I thank you for your initial help and advice!
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