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Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repeater

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FitAndInked
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Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repeater

Postby FitAndInked » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:41 am

I bought recently an Astro saber 3 in great condition that works great on amateur radio frequencies. But there is something strange I noticed, the local 2m repeater uses 6 character morse code identifier when activated and when goes back to standby, but I can only hear 2 or 3 single beeps from the whole morse ID. The radio for some reason cuts it. I tried different settings but nothing helped. It is not a real problem but I would like to know what is the reason and can I correct this.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby PETNRDX » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:28 am

If your radio is set to DECODE any PL tone that the repeater transmits, they probably have the repeater set up for "PL strip".
This is used a lot now with IRLP, Echolink, Allstar, and other linked systems.
It keeps the ID's and other messages from being sent to other repeater system when not needed or wanted.
Put your radio in carrier squelch to be sure.
If it is not cause by PL strip, you have a really weird problem there.
Steve K.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby Will » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:59 am

I will second that. Most repeaters send the ID without the PL tone, so you do not hear it. Called PL STRIP.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby FitAndInked » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:57 pm

The radio is set to carrier squelch and the repeater I am talking about has no PL tone.
I also tested an Astro saber II radio about a month ago on the same repeater and the rusults were exactly the same, it was also cutting most of the repeater ID. So this is definitely not a fault and probably can be easily corrected if I know what needs to be altered.
The Unmute/Mute Type is set to Unmute, or Mute. I also tried Standard but it didn't make any difference.
The delay is set to 0.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby 515 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:41 pm

If the morse tone frequency is close enough to those used by MDC-1200 signalling (1200 or 1800 Hz), the radio may be fooled into thinking it's an MDC-1200 message, and trying to mute it. If you have MDC-1200 signalling enabled on that personality, you might try disabling the Data Operated Squelch or disabling MDC-1200 altogether on that personality if you don't need it.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby FitAndInked » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:51 pm

The signalling is disabled on all programmed in the radio conventional personalities. I just looked at the pictures I made on all windows when I reprogrammed the radio and there is still one MDC system left (I am not sure all systems can be erased) with Data Squelch enabled. But if the signalling is disabled on the personality window can the radio still be fooled by MDC-like signal?

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby mike m » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:29 pm

Also check the bandwidth setting, although I'm not familiar with the astro saber and unsure if all models were 25/12.5 kHz capable. I had a similar issue with a friend who's radio was set to 12.5 kHz channel spacing and half of the ham repeaters worked fine while other half he had programmed were clipping out of his receivers passband.

We found that the repeaters that were working,even though they were set for 25kHz channls,they were only deviating around 3 k and even with 12.5 kHz channel setting the radio still worked OK while the rest of the repeaters that were clipping out of his radios passband were all deviating close to 5k. Once he changed his BW to 25 kHz everything sounded better. As you can see not all repeaters were set up properly and this could be your issue.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby FitAndInked » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:50 am

The radio is 25/12.5 khz capable and is set to 25 khz on all personalities because Finland is not as populated as other countries and here all amateur radio simplex and repeater frequencies are still using 25 khz bandwidth. If the problem is the bandwidth it can only be cured with alignment and I am not going to do that because the radio works very well and sounds great. And when I read the codeplug data I found it was last programmed and most likely the host and firmware updated (they are newer versions) in 2007 and possibly bench tested as the frequency is spot on like on a new radio.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby AL7OC » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:42 pm

It could also be that the deviation level of the CWID is too high. It is not uncommon for ham repeaters to be set with deviation peaks at or slightly above +/- 5KHz. I have problems with some ham repeaters here in western Colorado and my commercial radio equipment. The repeaters sound fine on amateur gear as the selectivity is more sloppy on it. Commercial grade receivers have tighter receivers for closer channel spacing, and will clip received signals with high deviation peaks. One of the linked repeaters here has slightly high deviation and received audio is often clipped on my Motorola and Thales receivers.

Check the repeater transmit deviation on a service monitor during the CWID and see if that is your problem. Turning down the audio level of the IDer may help.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby FitAndInked » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:28 am

I am also beginning to think it is over deviation issue because I checked the codeplug in depth at least dozen times and couldn't find anything wrong with it.
I am often using commercial radio equipment (Kenwood, Vertex and Motorola) on ham frequencies and repeaters without any issues. This is the second Astro Saber radio (so far I had chance to own and test only two) that clips the CWID of our local VHF repeater.

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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby Jim202 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:36 am

AL7OC wrote:It could also be that the deviation level of the CWID is too high. It is not uncommon for ham repeaters to be set with deviation peaks at or slightly above +/- 5KHz. I have problems with some ham repeaters here in western Colorado and my commercial radio equipment. The repeaters sound fine on amateur gear as the selectivity is more sloppy on it. Commercial grade receivers have tighter receivers for closer channel spacing, and will clip received signals with high deviation peaks. One of the linked repeaters here has slightly high deviation and received audio is often clipped on my Motorola and Thales receivers.

Check the repeater transmit deviation on a service monitor during the CWID and see if that is your problem. Turning down the audio level of the IDer may help.



I do considerable traveling around the country and have to agree with AL7OC. Many ham repeaters are set up by people that lack the proper test equipment. They just crank on the audio settings until it sound reasonable on their "HAM RADIO" off shore made radio. Those of us that run commercial radios sound like a bunch of old folks always making comments about the repeater throughput audio deviation is set way too high. It is clipping on several of the users that are talking. When you ask what the radio is they are using, you find it's a brand new off shore brand they just bought.

Before I moved to where I am now, I use to set up a Saturday for a radio club and would offer to run anyone's radio through the service monitor at no charge at the club meeting location. After several sessions like that, most of the what I call "JAP TRACK" radios were brought into compliance and the clipping or cutting out of the voice peaks all went away.

Then there were always a few that had took the position that "My radio is brand new, it has to be set correctly. Your not going to open it up and mess with it". Well it didn't take long before the rest of the club members gave those stand off's the cold shoulder. If they talked with them, the pressure to get their radio fixed became intense.

Bottom line is get the deviation correct or don't come playing in our sandbox.

Jim



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Re: Astro Saber 3 on RX cuts the morse code ID of a ham repe

Postby N9LLO » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:37 am

If the ID is overdeviation it should sound VERY loud compared to voice(assuming the voice dev is set right) I set my ID level to 2.5 khz deviation, this allows users to pretty much talk over it and not get lost. After all its not a TV commercial and should not be obnoxious like one.

Chris
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