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Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

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syntor9k
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Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:27 pm

Hi,

A friends Syntor X9000 had the main cable connector, on the radio side damaged, its J1 (I think). The CPU/ personality board has the PN of HLN4925B. The manual calls it HLN5299B.
I have a spare (dead) Syntor X. Its J1 (assuming its called J1 too) connector, looks kinda different (pins look the same).

My Questions:
-- Are the main connectors (J1) interchangeable between Syntor X and Syntor X9000?
-- Any one have any of the above mention parts?
-- Or should I just go buy another x9000 (time to fix and parts cost, not worth it)?

Jim202
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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Jim202 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:18 am

syntor9k wrote:Hi,

A friends Syntor X9000 had the main cable connector, on the radio side damaged, its J1 (I think). The CPU/ personality board has the PN of HLN4925B. The manual calls it HLN5299B.
I have a spare (dead) Syntor X. Its J1 (assuming its called J1 too) connector, looks kinda different (pins look the same).

My Questions:
-- Are the main connectors (J1) interchangeable between Syntor X and Syntor X9000?
-- Any one have any of the above mention parts?
-- Or should I just go buy another x9000 (time to fix and parts cost, not worth it)?


The Syntor X9000 is just a newer version of the Syntor X. The main difference is the control board. The rest of the guts of the Syntor X are very close to being the same. Many of the hams around the country have used the Syntor X as a source of parts for their Syntor X9000.

Programming the Syntor X9000 can be a challenge. There are a couple of the software versions floating around to program these radios. It take a slow computer with a serial connection. Unless you have one of the original programming cables, you will have to build your own. You can locate a siren adapter cable and then take the fancy male / female connector apart and wire in your programming connections. The other way is to add an internal
programming cable soldered to the required connections inside the radio. I was lucky and was given a number of the siren interface cables, so I made my own programming cable for these radios.

Feel free to ask question here and enjoy the learning about these radios. There is a wealth of information available on 3 web sites. S simple search on the Internet should give you all sorts of information and manuals for the Syntor X9000 radios. Most of the manuals are too big to email, so you will have to download them yourself.

Jim

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syntor9k
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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:39 pm

Hi Jim,
I've been messing with Syntor X9000 for quite a while...

So the Syntor X J1 looks totally different, than the X9K's. Are you sure there compatible?

I have few cables, unfortunately, some are old Polaris non-standard type and including their old RIB , as well as Mot std (aftermarket). And I have a few working computers now. And a few versions of sw too, each having things the others dont have. I wish there was up to date versions that would run on more current computers. I have, 8086/10?(HP100) 286/10, 386/20 (for the syntors), 486/33 and 100, P3/450?, etc (Some with with Win95, 98 mostly, one might be ME). The later two are ToughBooks. I wish I could make these work for the S9K's...

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Mike B » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:45 am

The HLN4925B is an early first version of the conventional X9K personality board. The HLN5299B was the third and last revision of the same board. The J1 connector is the same for all three versions.

http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... l#x9kperbd
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... l#x9kjuper

New features and options were available with the later revision X9K personality boards. Your manual just doesn't cover the early version board that you actually have.

The conventional X9K and older original conventional SyntorX have exactly the same J1 physical connector body on the personality board. I have never seen or heard of a different J1 connector body between these two conventional radio models. The cable wiring and pin functions are however completely different (not compatible at all). Do you have a trunking SyntorX personality board? That could be different?

http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/images/s_x9kspins.gif

With the right tools and soldering rework skills you should be able to remove both J1 connector bodies and replace the damaged X9K connector. I have never done this myself. I have always replaced the entire X9K personality board. The personality board jumper table link above will help you if you find a later revision replacement personality board.

If you replace the personality board, the Squelch Threshold Adjustment R213 typically does not need adjusting:
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... #x9ksqlthr
However, the R108 Deviation will need adjusting. If you use DPL the R111 Compensation will also need adjusting (it is good practice to adjust it even if you don't use DPL).

If your U502 chip has a good code plug on it, you can move it to a different replacement personality board. Be careful to make sure the JU501-JU502 jumpers match your original board configuration. Then check all the other personality board jumpers.

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Andy Brinkley » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:06 am

I have a HLN5299B you can have for the cost of shipping.

Story behind it is that somehow my customer managed to fracture HY500 (Inline ceramic chip next to J1). It was quicker for me to swap the entire board so the damaged one is just taking up space in the parts bin. You can swap the HY500 chip to this board easier than unsoldering J1.

Merry Christmas
Andy

--------------------------------------------------------------
NC Certified Firefighter III / EMT
FCC Licensed Technician / Amateur Call NC4AB / Echolink Node #5761

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:07 pm

My radio's are LB T71 types. The donor is more shielded and has finger stock on it. I think.

Thanks Mike for the info. My pins are the same.
Andy, I'd like that. PM sent.
Mean while, I spent my Xmas eve, removing the donor J1. That was not easy. I dont look forward to doing this on my friends radio.
BTW. The donor part has stress cracks on it.

Anyone know...
-- That radio has 64 mods (128 actually) and the U502 has a sticker on it. I assume this is real Moto 8k chip?
-- Y300 modified meaning (and have the details).
-- Name of the mod were the orange and green is eliminated and is powered off the main 12v power (and have the details).

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Mike B » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:32 am

It shouldn't matter if your 28 pin U502 chip is original Motorola or not. That is unless you are hoping U502 might sill have the original factory code plug from the factory programming label on the underside of the radio drawer top lid. If U502 has the correct label, then it probably is physically the original factory chip.

http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... html#x9k64
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... #x9keeprom

You will need a different 01-06707T52 - 128 mode scan U501 EPROM firmware chip to scan more than 64 modes. Be aware this version firmware does not support the feature where you hear an audible tone from the speaker when changing the audio volume (if there is no unsquelched activity on the frequency).

Y300 is a 4 MHz crystal in an oscillator circuit on the personality board. This 4 MHz oscillator feeds U300 (switch capacitor filter chip) in the audio section. My manual had a block diagram of U300 and a description in section 3.3.1 Oscillator (4-MHz). I have no real idea why there would be any modification for this oscillator circuit. Maybe it caused a birdie in some frequency specific Rx applications and the 4 MHz frequency was tweaked (pure unadulterated speculation)????

The Tx buffer board is unique to the low band radios. You will need a low band version of the Motorola manual to see the Tx buffer circuit details. It is mounted in an enclosure above the personality board near the PA deck to the left of the VCO (also near the audio transformer). It is powered by a Tx keyed 9.4 volt power lead. There is some confusion in the various manual revisions about where this Tx keyed 9.4 volt wire from this module is connected on different personality board revisions. On the early HLN4925 it might possibly be connected to the personality board JU503 or J503 (different schematics designate this with different part numbers). It is not a jumper, it is actually a header. In other cases it is connected to the common circuits board and not the personality board. Anyway, if you change from a HLN4925B to a HLN5299B keep an eye out for any possible problems/differences.

There is a custom field modification where a spare 1 or spare 2 J1 cable wire (J1 pin 13 or 24) is jumpered to J1 pin A (12 volt main red power wire). This jumper is usually on the solder side of the J1 personality board connector. Then the control head circuit board (internally) either pin 28 or 29 (spare 1 or spare 2) is jumpered to pin 47 (control head power green wire) and sometimes also to pin 15 (ignition control head orange wire). Since the radio drawer personality board jumper on J1 is usually not fused I think this modification stinks big time. Remember any VIP accessories on the control head will also draw their power through these custom jumpers. VIP accessories probably have a greater chance of accidental short circuits. I do not know if Motorola ever did this modification themselves or it might have been strictly a field modification. The small value fuses on the orange and green wires are much much better/appropriate than the main 40 amp red wire fuse for the control head/VIP. I don't know if this modification has a name or not.

http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... l#x9kperbd
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... #x9kchpins

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Mike B » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:57 am

One last thought about X9K control heads with pin 15 orange wire internal power jumpers. Never use them in any normal installation where the orange wire is connected to the vehicle (put a warning label on the back of the head). This ignition circuit is not for starting the vehicle, but it is supposed to not get any power when the vehicle ignition switch is turned off. A control head with internal power jumpers could feed power back into your vehicle ignition circuits when they are supposed to be powered off. This could cause an unexpected power drain for your vehicle battery or who knows what trouble it might cause for the vehicle.

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:49 pm

Mike,

Thanks for the input. I have heard of this problem were someone mistakenly connected the Org/ Grn when it was internally connected.

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:53 pm

Update on the bad J1 radio...

I transferred the new J1 into the radio. What a pain...

This radio has had problems that acted like a bad connector (before). Fail 01/90 was the most common. About any thing will clear it. Like removing the connector and reinstalling it. So when the main connector went bad it was an ah-ha thing. The bad news is, that its back. This time on my bench/ shack. With my cable and head. At first when I first connected and powered the ratio for the first time, and got the ) Fail 1/90 - I thought I messed up the new J1. Then I disconnected the DTMF board and it when a away. Then put it back together and it still was OK. Then it stopped responding to button presses, and I power cycled it and guess what error code. 01/90.
Bottom line, its intermittent.

While I was in there, I saw flux on an IC (U302) and the J1 connector on the HLN4925b personality board...

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:22 pm

After some troubleshooting, I found that A to 12 is not connected and so isn't Pin 17 to CR504 (BUS +) on J1 (these are what I know about).

Its starting to sound like I could use Andy's board...

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Mike B » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 am

The main power A and B pins inside the cable J1 connector housing are known for the red or black wire becoming separated from the pin at the solder joint. Sometimes the solder between the wire and pin stress fractures from mechanical vibration or manipulation of the cable. It is not impossible for heating through a bad connection to heat the solder. This is the most common source of random intermittent fail 01/90s. A solder stress fracture may not be visible to the naked eye. Some later X9K cables used epoxy on the red black wires inside this cable housing to mitigate this problem.

The option boards like the DTMF board have their own R/C time constant watchdog timer circuit. If this fails (and one of mine has failed) the board can force the entire radio into a constant very fast cycle of resets. Usually the fail 01/90 will flash rapidly (mostly on, but quickly flickering off temporarily). However, you cannot tell for sure until after the J1 cable side power pins are checked and repaired if needed. You can also look at the radio reset line with an oscilloscope for resets. The radio personality board watchdog reset circuit seems to be very stable and I have not seen any of these malfunction. X9K control heads can also have their watchdog circuits malfunction and cause this problem.

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:35 am

Thanks Mike for the input.
The A to Pin 12 is on the PCA (PCB damage).
I have too seen this error 1/90 do to the big red/ black wires inside the connector. And doing a search here, I found a post, "... the red wire came out of the connector in my hand..." I thought me too...

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby fineshot1 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:28 am

pm sent to syntor9k on 12/28

Check your PM's
fineshot1
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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby Astro Spectra » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:34 pm

Mike B, your encyclopaedic knowledge of the Syntor never fails to amaze me.

Low band Syntors rock...

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:30 pm

Every one, thank for the help...

When I fix the first radio, I'll start in on the "parts radio" that has no TX.

I lost my job month ago, so I seem to have a little bit of spare time between job searching.

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:42 pm

The first radio, now lives!!!

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Re: Syntor x9000, Need J1 or HLN5299B/HLN4925B

Postby syntor9k » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:24 pm

The Parts radio now lives. The no TX was do to a bad personality board (if you remember, I purchased this radio for parts and I needed the personality board. But that board had many wires bypassing bad traces). The replacement board just needed (JU) jumpers moved to make it good for LB. And I needed to tweak the Dev, a little...


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