HT1000 or HT750 - critical situations

bud_mot · Post by **bud_mot** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:34 pm

I've seen some debate here about these two radios as well as the Jedi and Waris lines in general. I'm curious if push came to shove which radio works better or could be better trusted in a truly critical situation.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:48 pm

Not even close.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:20 pm

I wounder if the 750 will get a vote?

Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:30 pm

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, let me just wipes the tears from my eyes and put on my BEST "OK, I'm being serious now" face. Hands down, the HT1000!!!

Wait, wait! What do you call a thousand Waris series radios at the bottom of the sea? A GOOD START!!!

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:53 pm

Is any public safety agency even using the HT750 ?
(Use mine for a paper weight).

commtek · Post by **commtek** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:18 pm

Waris and Lawyers....Hey Chuck, I think you're onto something....

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:43 pm

Oh this is tough one.

motisking · Post by **motisking** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:25 pm

This is just painful to watch. How about HT1000 vs. XTS ?

motisking · Post by **motisking** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:32 pm

RadioSouth wrote:Is any public safety agency even using the HT750 ?
(Use mine for a paper weight).

Actually, yes , HT1250s, but not on the front lines. Detectives like small size, 14 character alpha tags and MDC1200 decode. I have 11 EX600 being used by one departments Detectives with no complaints. It sure beats the Visar.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:45 pm

I'd be dead if my life depended on the HT750 . . . . .

tom IL · Post by **tom IL** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:52 pm

Most of the depts. around here are buying HT-750. They are mostly replacing HT-600’s so there are still lots of HT-1000’s out there. The Sheriff’s office has been buying VX-600’s as replacement radios.

70351 · Post by **70351** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:10 am

I'm an avid fan of the Jedi series radio's. While I've never owned or so much as used a 750, I have handled one just to "check it out", and I was NOT impressed. I would take a Jedi any day over the Waris.

I own several HT1000's & MT2000's and their great radio's. There may indeed be better radio's out there, but nowadays HT1000's can be bought for really cheap prices (and not beat up units either). A couple months ago I bought a used "D" version 2-channel UHF HT1000 for only $100. Prices don't get any better than that (unless it's free). Channel conversion is also a snap on these models. As far as the used market, you'll get a much better value going with the HT1000, plus it's a better radio than the HT750 in my opinion.

Randy

cranbiz · Post by **cranbiz** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:57 am

Well, this one was a no brainer

I carry a HT1000 as my personal duty radio,

played with the HT750 once,

never again.

Bob

Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:06 am

RadioSouth wrote:Is any public safety agency even using the HT750 ?
(Use mine for a paper weight).

We have quite a few of them in PDs and FDs in New Jersey. Biggest problem seems to be the intermitent battery contact situation.

Now, I have my best "OK, I'm being serious" face on again when I say this. They're not a "Bad" radio per-se, it's just that for the money you spend on them you might as well purchase the Jedi series which is a FAR superior unit.

It seems that every time /\/\otorola has a decent radio on thier hands, they kill it when they put a piece of $#!t on the market. Perfect example is the Maxtrac/Radius series mobiles. Along came the CDM (Crappy Dung Mobile) and the Maxtrac/Radius went the way. (You can sell ALOT more CDM parts than Maxtrac parts I guess!)

Now, with the new CM/CM line, I bet it won't be long before the SM series is gone as well. The only difference is that the CP series seems to be a decent portable so far. I have'nt seen the CM yet, but I have a couple of CPs out on demo to a PD and FD and they are VERY happy woith them so far. Maybe, just maybe, /\/\oto got one right?

elkbow · Post by **elkbow** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:02 am

You know whats funny, this is like Ford vs Chevy, you like whatever you own. I own both, do I use my HT1000 or MTS2000 much, NO...I use my HT1550 and HT750's, got rid of all my 1250's. Why, because they're not bricks like the other radio's. Internally I can't say that they are more sturdy, my profession isn't working on them. I've never had a problem with any of my 750's 1250's or my 1550. People say they are built cheap....well, I take the 750's hunting and hiking, they get the crap beat out of them, but never have I broke one, I've bent the antenna's. Now my MT2000 that I had, I dropped it a few times, I cracked the whole front of the case and broke the tabs off of the battery. I've popped the battery off of the 750's, etc., but never broke anything.

Just my two cents, the Waris series cover everything I need it for and the compact size has my vote any day over the Jedi Series. Now the XTS....that I'll take. If the Jedi's were smaller, I'd go with them, but I carry 30 pounds of crap in my pack when I'm hunting, and wear a camelback with 100oz of water and have 3 game calls on my neck, binoculars, GPS....last thing I want is a oversized radio. Thats why I really hate Sabers.....

The Jedi may be a better radio internally, but the size is my friend. So I'll stick with the Waris line for now, until there is a smaller Jedi series radio.

Ford vs Chevy.....its also hard to teach an old dog new tricks....

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:12 am

Don't see this as a Ford vs. Chevy comparison at all. I own both as do many who have responded and the response seems unanimous. Your application using them as hunting radios sounds appropriate, I'm using my HT600's for that only because I already have a few. The person who started the thread was inquiring for 'mission critical' situations. Someone mentioned switching over detectives to the HT1250 from the Visar, based on the Visar's track record I would consider that a move up. But, the HT1000 or if they need the alpha display and more channels the MT2000. They're not that much larger/heavier than the HT1250 unless their using the very light/slim Li-Ion battery on the 1250 and then there's a very noticeable difference and would be a decent option for PC duty. Nice that
there's the option, I was stuck with a HT-220 (omni),MT500 and later a MT1000 for PC work, not the easiest to conceal. When the partial switch to MT2000's was made the PC guys were fighting for them, uniform guys
all stuck with the MT1000 even when an extra MT2000 was in the rack.

fireradio · Post by **fireradio** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:37 am

Almost the entire fleet of radios at the fire dept., police dept., and the rescue squad here is made up of HT750s and HT1250s. They're OK, but not great. I'd rather have an HT1000.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:23 am

Hell, I'm suprised no one said "SABER".
Well, I pick the SABER over ALL the radios

(XTS, Jedi radios, etc.) True while big, they are a VERY tough radio to "break".

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:02 am

I had a little argument on FH.com with this nitwit that insisted that HT1250 was far superior to any of the Jedi radios. Of course, this same person also tried to convince everyone that all you needed to program it was "a patch cable for the computer".

elkbow · Post by **elkbow** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:07 am

No, its not Ford vs Chevy, its HT750 vs HT1000, the new vs the old and I gave my personal opinion, yet someone has to jump in and try to slam me for my own personal preference and experiences. I use them for more than hunting/hiking/HAM....my experience, my preference. The HT1000 is much bigger, maybe not compared to a Saber, but compared to an HT750 or 1250, yes it is. The case plastic is the exact same thickness, and I've broken my MT yet failed to break an HT750/other yet. I've also broken my Saber (broke the baseplate that the battery attachs to, same on my HT600). Also, the antenna connection appears to be much sturdier design than the HT1000 (big no no picking up by the antenna).

Anyways, you take your Chevy, I'll take my Ford, even though I own both, and waiting to see what Nissan comes out with next that may fit my fancy.

What works for you may not work for me, so the best radio is the one that fits you best....

chipjumper · Post by **chipjumper** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:49 am

I say we take the 2 guys who voted for the 750 out back and beat 'em (with HT1000's)!!!

elkbow · Post by **elkbow** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:53 am

Problem is, when you beat us, the tabs would break off the battery, the antenna would rip out and the high profile knobs would bust off....then again, may make a better weapon that way....

x1sspic · Post by **x1sspic** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:07 pm

Don't interpret this as a vote for the waris series (I'd take a Jedi radio any day)... but.... Another supervisor and I put a 1250 through the paces (let's just say one accidentally went for a flight out of a moving vehicle among other things....

). It kept on kicking until it finally went for a swim, after which the keypad stopped functioning

. I'd have to say it was a little more durable than I had given it credit for!

007 · Post by **007** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:24 pm

I've got a "D" revision HT1000 and a "C" revision speaker mic in it's high-activity leather holster strapped to my side as I type...enough said.

Sundown · Post by **Sundown** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:55 pm

OK guys... I have both Jedi and Waris series radios, and I can clearly see the benefits of each. So what is it about the Waris line that people don't like for mission critical? Is it more than pure bias on the basis that Jedi is targeted at the high end market (or other reasons)? What are the reasons that you wouldn't use Waris for mission critical apps?

Post by **wavetar** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:02 pm

Yes, the Waris series was originally meant to take the place of the Jedi radios. But, much like the Probe could never replace the Mustang, it didn't happen, and we ended up with both.

For the last 3 years or so, I've found the HT750/1250 to be a fine, feature rich & dependable series of radio. It's a shame the series in the first couple of years suffered from so many problems. From firmware glitches, to poor antenna & matching circuit design, the launch was truly botched.

I would now have no problem handing them to public safety personnel for daily use. In fact, I've seen far, far worse radios being used by various departments...Tekk, Maxon, etc.

But, my personal preference would still be the Jedi series for any application that didn't have a size/feature limitation.

Todd

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:53 pm

RadioSouth wrote:Don't see this as a Ford vs. Chevy comparison at all.

More like a Bronco Vs. Explorer debate..

I've had experience with both. HT1000's in comercial EMS use that had been beaten all to heck by me. And an HT1250 used in Loss Prevention at a warehouse and currently during Commercial EMS service. Both seemed to fair well through-out the abuse of everyday use.

I think a lot of people have a jaded opinion of the Waris series because of the introduction they made. Let's face it. The Waris series stepped out onto the stage and fell flat on it's face. Since then it's picked itself up and seems to have redeemed itself.

Maybe... it's because a lot of public safety type folks are afraid of or just plain old resistant change. "New and Improved? Bah... can't be I'll take me tried and true reliable HT1000 over the flashy new thing. Let the rookie carry the radio that looks like a child's toy."

So I'm sure given the chance the Waris series may prove itself yet. With the exception of the early production issues I have not seen much negativity on the Waris series locally at all.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:25 pm

Funny how we think of the Jedi radios as big... anyone remember STX821's or MT500 omnis or better yet MX360's with DTMF fronts.

Now those were big radios.

commtek · Post by **commtek** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:28 pm

Unless you consider the 85,000 low band HT750s that Mother M admitted they have a problem with, but won't recall. When someone brings one in and it wont tx more than 25 feet, we say "Another one off to the depot"

They replace the known problem....and won't tell you what it was, and the radios seem good to go. For how long, who knows..

Besides, if companies don't engineer a five year lifespan into their products, how are the poor salesmen going to collect their commission checks?

The sad part of this is, there are Motrac systems still out there and still ticking....

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:47 pm

I would pull out a Glock and use that if my life were on the line, but seriously I beleive the Jedi series is a much better radio that the Waris could hope to be.

Frank

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:13 pm

Seems like the HT-1250*LS old firmware and the darn Volume POTs seem to give us alot of trouble. The Universal Connector covering peels off easy too. And the some speaker Mics have connectivity problems. We upgraded from HT-1000s for the trunking. 98% of the old HT-1000s still work fine..even though the batteries are gonners.

Sundown · Post by **Sundown** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:34 pm

OK, the Waris early production issues sound like a lot of the reason towards the animosity given to these radios... But I'm still hearing peoples personal preferences towards Jedi, and saying Waris can never dream to be what Jedi is, but those people aren't saying the reasons why, which is what I'm interested in!!

Why is it you have that personal preference? What is it about the Waris or Jedi that makes you think the Jedi is better?

And BTW.. I think personal preference is great. Certainly not saying people shouldn't be having their own preference towards Jedis... Just hoping to understand it's background to maybe create my own preference in this arena

kf4sqb · Post by **kf4sqb** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:59 pm

Personally, I choose the JEDI for durability and performance. I work for a shortline railroad, and we use HT1000's for all the train crews. Don't have many problems with them. We tried out the HT1250 once. Broke one very shortly and they wouldn't even come close to keeping up with the HT1000 for range, mainly RX range. I also know of a few die-hard /\/\otorola fans in the pubic safety sector who have soured on Motorola because of the Waris line and changed their alligence to Vertex. I've seen an HT1250 in a fire that shut compleately down, wouldn't do anything but emit a loud squeal. Seen HT1000's with the case partially melted in a fire that still performed flawlessly. Also, someone alluded to a Waris series crapping out after getting wet. My brother has (and no, I don't recomend doing this, with any radio!) washed his HT1000 off in a swimming pool, because it was dropped and had a little dirt on it!

In short, I wouldn't trust a Waris line as far as my 2 year old nephew could throw it, and that ain't very far!

rrfd43 · Post by **rrfd43** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:12 pm

We had ht750's on front line fire duty for about 6-8 months. Poor transmit proformance and when it was in the front pocket most of the operators changed the channel instead of turn the volume up. If a guy standing next to you had an ht1000 or mt1000 with him, it would work, but have the time the ht750 would not recieve or transmit outside the same building. We returned them all and bought ht1000's. Leave the ht750's to custodial staff!

Sundown · Post by **Sundown** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:09 pm

So how long ago were those performance problems? Were they during the period they were having all the production issues, or is it more recent than that?

TWL911 · Post by **TWL911** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:18 pm

I have owned an HT-1250 for almost 5 years now. It has been my personal radio used for fire and EMS. I have been very satisfied with this radio, it has taken everything I have subjected to. The only time it quit was after being submerged in a radio pocket full of water for 30 minutes or more, Rx continued to work, but Tx was gone until it was dried. My only complaint is the poor Tx range when using the speaker mic. Also the speaker mic is very cheap looking and feeling compared to the jedi series. If it were to come down to a choice between the Ht1000 and the Ht750, I would take the Ht1000 anyday, the features are comparable and the Ht1000 is just much more durable. When the 1250 and 1550 come into play the addition channels/zones and display slightly outweigh the additional durability of the ht1000. My personal opinion is the Ht 750 has not and never will replace the Ht 1000.

On a side note, I also own a CDM1550 that I have been very pleased with, I sometimes wonder what the people that have nothing good to say about the entire waris line are doing with their radios? I have yet to have a single problem with any of the ones I own and have used.

Mercenary · Post by **Mercenary** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:46 am

I have used both the HT1000 and the HT1250. During the time i was using the HT1250, i would be in areas where i have transmit and received fine on my HT1000 and i could not get out on my HT1250. So i sold the Officer Safety Problem, A.K.A the HT1250 and i went back to using my HT1000.

Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:16 am

kf4sqb wrote: I've seen an HT1250 in a fire that shut compleately down, wouldn't do anything but emit a loud squeal.

You did'nt get the service bulletin on this problem?? Motorola calls it the "Screams Like A :o" symptom and it happens any time that the radio finds it's self in a hazzardous situation where it's own self survival becomes a concern.

EKLB · Post by **EKLB** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:21 am

Its the HT1000 hands down here.

But ill go a bit further and say it another way.

I will not use the HT series even in a safe envioroment period.

If i want unreliability and problems then id buy a HT750/ HT1250 /HT1550

Motorola has gone too far with the ruining of this line of portables.

Bottom line= JUNK IS JUNK !

EKLB

Post by **wavetar** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:06 am

Sundown wrote:OK, the Waris early production issues sound like a lot of the reason towards the animosity given to these radios... But I'm still hearing peoples personal preferences towards Jedi, and saying Waris can never dream to be what Jedi is, but those people aren't saying the reasons why, which is what I'm interested in!!

Why is it you have that personal preference? What is it about the Waris or Jedi that makes you think the Jedi is better?

And BTW.. I think personal preference is great. Certainly not saying people shouldn't be having their own preference towards Jedis... Just hoping to understand it's background to maybe create my own preference in this arena

Bottom line, the Jedi series was more successful that I think even Motorola ever dreamed. Originally designed as a 'mid-tier' product, it has comparable performance to the top-of-the-line Saber series, and 95% as durable. Who'd have thought a snap together radio would ever achieve such a following? The RF electronics design was so successful, it is the backbone behind the Astro Saber/XTS3000 radios as well.
Unless your willing to spend significantly more money, the Jedi radios quite simply can't be beat...even by other radio manufacturers. That is something the Waris series portables simply cannot claim. This is why so many people prefer the Jedi, it is considered the last 'great' Motorola design.

Todd

elkbow · Post by **elkbow** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:48 am

Everyone has there opinions and preferences, so I'll give mine....

Anyone that says that the HT1000 is more durable than the HT750 is because they own the HT1000 and not a 750 and usually have never used one. Look at the construction, almost identical, the plastic thickness is the same and made from the same material. The seals on the knobs and case are formatted the same. One difference, the Waris is designed to latest styles (since it is newer) and the Jedi was designed as a brick, which we all have are preferences on. I toasted a MT2000 while in the woods and got stuck in a rainstorm, I was soaked, it wasn't submerged, it just got soaked, it completely shorted, I thought it was just the battery connections getting wet....nope, it was toast, no power-up whatsoever. Is this a reason to say I wouldn't own another MT2000, no, I still like the Jedi Series, I just like the smaller size of the Waris.

I have both MTS2000's and a HT1550, which one do I use most.....the HT1550, the MTS is used as a scanner in the house. The programmable battery feature on the 1550 and size are the specifications I desire most. Functionally, try to go in and change your Mic Gain on your HT1000 with the RSS....NOT. On the 750/1250/1550, its a menu in the CPS, along with many other menu's of performance items that you can change from the CPS, items that you would have to use the Alignment menu's on the Jedi.

Every Jedi I have owned sounds like crap on other radio's, poor Mic gain from the factory and static in the background....try it, if you think I'm kidding, Tx with a MTS2000, HT1000, etc. to a neutral radio and then Tx with a HT750 and listen to the difference. Again, my personal experience.

Which one would I own, I own several of each, I have 4 HT750's, one PRO5150, had two HT1250's, still own a HT1550, own two MTS2000's, had two MT2000's, two HT1000's. I also have a radio that I use alot, actually have 9 of them...the GP3000, not as solidly built as the others, but they work and sound great.....

maxjam · Post by **maxjam** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:34 am

I guess the biggest thing I have seen is the TX issue. I have several officers that will grab an old ht1000 or Standard HX400 and consistently out TX a waris radio with or without a speaker mic. We have proved it with vhf and uhf radios. We have swapped antennas, put them on a service monitor to make sure all was well, double checked the settings, etc, etc.

It kinda reminds me back when the GP300 came out... a lot of fire departments went with it cause they could page and have a radio.. less stuff for the belt. Same thing.. pull out an old mt1000 and out tx 'em everytime.

Maybe we need to have a TX shoot out with all of the radios lined up side by side!

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 6:54 am

I suppose this is a good place to tell a story......... . We have a logging crew working in South Carolina right now. They are swamp logging. And I literally mean swamp logging, like the deepest depths of Louisianna Bayou type swamp. Copperheads, water mocassins, but they have not yet reported any alligators. Anyway, our safety guy was just there, last week. While he was there, one of the loggers showed up at the Project Manager's "office", and reported that he had lost his radio. It apparently slipped out of his chest pack, and he didn't even realize it until about 30 minutes later. So, the PM, the safety guy, and the logger all wandered out to where he had been working. In chest high water, mind you. Well, they found the radio, about two or three hours after he noticed it was missing. It was still turned on, and still working. They turned it off, and took it back to the hotel that night, to let it dry. The next day, the logger turned on the radio, and it worked perfectly. He has used, and is using, it ever since, with no problems. All after being completely submerged for hours while powered on. Which radio was it? An HT-750. I know our guys prefer the HT 1000s, but they don't complain about having HT 750s, at all.

afterimage84 · Post by **afterimage84** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:07 am

i use a mx350 as my daily driver...i even had it refurbed by j hansen about two years ago. this radio rocks! i also have a saber iii which is also nice. the issued radio now is the 1250 or 1550 but the mx is my pick....

u just can't beat it, well actually you can beat it, drop it from the roof, throw it through a window, etc...

Sundown · Post by **Sundown** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:49 pm

There's lots of good information coming out of this, which is great

Personally, I've never had any issues with the Waris radios I have, but as it seems that Tx might be an issue, I'm certainly going to look out for that now!

To the people who still claim that if they want unreliability and problems they'd buy a Waris, then please let us know what experiences you've had that have engraved that bad image in your mind (poor Tx aside)

Sundown · Post by **Sundown** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:53 pm

Oh yeah... did I mention I own Jedi series too? (Just in case people think I'm overly biased to Waris

)

E911EMT · Post by **E911EMT** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:11 am

The HT1000 Works a Thousand Times Better and is alot easier to repair..

wa2zdy · Post by **wa2zdy** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:18 am

A P200 or MT1000 won't break when you left your Glock at home . . .

Ok, I'm sort of yanking your chains. I know one guy with one of the little Waris radios, don't know which, and it looks kinda "dainty" to me. He also never seems to take it out of the house. We have HT1000s and MT2000s at work and they take a beating. Granted there are always 5 or 10 at the shop, but they're getting old now too. Since I'm not involved with the radios at work except to use them, I don't know the details of why they go bad. They keep working though. And we are NOT nice to them.

I still say the Genesis was the among the best though . . . (yeah, and I have a hard head too!)

Happy Thanksgiving

Zero dbm · Post by **Zero dbm** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:54 pm

I don't know...The HT750 is getting up there with votes. Ha Ha. The HT750 is a useless piece of crap and should be considered flung dung.

mr-fordtruck · Post by **mr-fordtruck** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 9:34 pm

Totally believe the Genesis are the best - Rugged as hell. profession series are like family radio service radios - total garbage

HT1000 or HT750 - critical situations

If your life was on the line would you rather use a HT1000 or HT750?

HT1000 or HT750 - critical situations

Waris vs. Jedi

well