/\/\otorola HT1000 Question Going beyond 5 watts of power

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troymelina
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/\/\otorola HT1000 Question Going beyond 5 watts of power

Post by troymelina »

I have 2 Motorola HT1000 VHF radio's that I use and the question that I have is,Is it possible to set the radio's to 5.5 watts or 6 watts of power without harming them?And has anyone done this with any luck or harm.

Also they are series (A) radio's 16 channel :P thanks
kmoose
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Post by kmoose »

It's possible to get them past 5 watts. But it overworks the PA, in my opinion, and it is is illegal to transmit more than 5 watts. It's your call, but I would recommend not doing it. A few years ago, we hired a guy here who thought that he could make an impression, by turning up the power to the stops. He would talk a lot about how his repairs had better range, in the field, than anyone else's. This is also the guy who thought it would be a good idea to clean the circuit boards of our B/K EPHs with WD-40. The VCOs on the B/Ks are not entirely sealed. A bunch of them ended up collecting WD-40 under the VCO shield. You get very strange harmonics, and a lot of synthesizer unlock conditions, when this happens. Needless to say, I was not very amused when I found out what had been going on. Also needless to say, he no longer works here.
Last edited by kmoose on Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Motradio
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Post by Motradio »

Would it really make that much of a difference, and more RF near your head is not such a great idea :-). If you calc the value of increased signal strength vs the extra .5-1watt it probabally would not be that much. Maybe if you are on the fringe now it would help. I can't remember if the HT1000 have a power adjustment in the RSS since it is not in front of me, but it might. Again, others with more work on the 1000's rf board might have better feedback.

Sandy
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Post by RadioSouth »

Wrong model to overdrive. If you need 6 watts Saber would be my 1st choice then the Genesis lineup but the difference would be very negligible.
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Post by thebigphish »

if you want to smoke your battery faster, and push the PA and synth out of spec, go right ahead....but it won't give you any reasonable increase in TX distance, effectiveness or lifespan.
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Post by RadioSouth »

Just spotted your 2nd question and yes, A version HT1000's came
2,8,or 16 channel. 8 channel variety was dropped starting with the B revision.
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wx4cbh
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Post by wx4cbh »

With an omni directional antenna, there is negligible difference in 5 watts and seven watts. The major difference comes from the antenna and internal feedline and other factors. One interesting example is that during antenna research for a major antenna manufacturer, we were able to demonstrate that a VHF Sabre and a VHF Genesis series set at 5 watts will show a slightly higher field strength at 100 feet than will a VHF Jedi and significantly more field strength than the VHF Waris. That goes back to that quality of design thing.
Last edited by wx4cbh on Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CTAMontrose
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Post by CTAMontrose »

kmoose wrote: and it is is illegal to transmit more than 5 watts. .
huh?
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Post by RadioSouth »

I believe he's right. Type acceptance specifies maximum RF power and exceeding this would likely void the acceptance for that unit.
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Post by CTAMontrose »

ahh forgot about ole type acceptance...
OX
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Post by OX »

Borrow from the "this is your brain on drugs" commercial and replace it with "this is your brain after transmitting above 5 watts next to your head for years". That should be a no brainer, ew I made a funny....

I don't remember the actual calc, but someone told me that for every extra watt of power, you increase range by a small percentage, but it was limited obviously by other factors such as terrain, antenna gain, etc.

It would be safer and more useful to install a voter and remote receivers.
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MotoVio
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Post by MotoVio »

I never read the RF exposure booklets from my walkies :lol:

What type of harm does RF exactly do to the human brain? :-?
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mr.syntrx
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Post by mr.syntrx »

Cancer, if you ask the "cellphones are dangerous" people.

I almost always use a speaker mic or "surveillance kit" with my handhelds anyway.
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Post by va3wxm »

It's all a load of :o anyway.

5 watts into a -20dB antenna is harmless even if held at head level. And the duty cycle is no where near as bad as a cellphone.

But to answer the original question an extra 0.5-1 watt won't make any difference on the receiver's end and will significantly shorten the life of your finals.
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JOHN 1807
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Post by JOHN 1807 »

I agree with va3wxm.

And as for using a speakermic to avoid RF exposure to your head, Its an excellent idea--------------------------------So long as you dont mind frying your nuts :wink:

As far as the difference between 5 and 7 watts being "negligible" I can't say I agree with that or else people wouldn't rant about the Sabers TX performance.

Mind you- none of the above taking type acceptance into consideration.

One final note: When using a speakermic, Tx performance can't match one holding a radio up in front of ones face-- harmful or not when a radio is belt worn the body at least blocks if not absorbes Rf-------and using a PS speakermic---well thats the same thing as holding the radio in your hand.

-J
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70351
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Post by 70351 »

I just purchased a VHF HT1000 that had been refurbed, and it arrived set at 7-watts output! Whoever set the stupid thing had all the setpoints maxed out for some reason. I'm just hoping I caught it in time, but it will do at least 7 watts from what I've seen. Of course I immediately turned it down to 5 watts max, which is Motorola's spec for the VHF HT1000.


Randy
I Never asked, tried to sell, or even so much as hinted about RSS. The moderators decided to "tag" me for no reason. This is what happens when you ask for help on the board. Your name gets smeared for something you didn't do.
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Post by thebigphish »

VioLenT wrote:I never read the RF exposure booklets from my walkies :lol:

What type of harm does RF exactly do to the human brain? :-?

RF has been linked to physical radiated heat injury & burns on surfaces...and has been under suspect of causing atypical cell mutation and degredation ...

..or something like that.
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Monty
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Post by Monty »

HI:

I have been a Tech specializing in Motorola Portable
Products since 1972, so hopefully you can see the
wisdom of what I am about to post.

With HT1000's the Power is 5 Watts, 4 Watts, 3 Watts
in regards to the VHF, UHF and 800 Mhz radios.

That is what the radio is spec'ed for.

Anyhow, one can ( through the alighnment ) process
" Exceed" the specs of the radios transmitt limits
disregarding the "Warnings" in the RSS not to exceed
the Spec'ed limits!

THis IS NOT A GOOD IDEA ( Period ) No Exceptions.

The primary reason is the architecture of the Power Amp
in HT1000's are " Soldered to the Main PC Board " with
a Special Robot.

Removal of the Power Amp is ALMOST impossible unless
you have the proper tools, and if you blow out a PA ( which
is more common in VHF HT1000's ) than other ones, you
may just end up with a Blow PA and then a replacement
radio.

The extra power obtained 1 ~ 2 watts is " JUST NOT WORTH"
the trade off ! ( Period ), and will just end up running the
battery down faster. The main reason for Hi/Low RF Power
Selection.

Why have a 6 ~ 7 Watt radio to talk accross a football field ?

If you need higher power, get a Saber, and those can easily
do 6 ~ 7 Watts with ease AND if you blow up a Power Amp in
a Saber. is a simple matter of a couple of screws, and a plug
in aa new PA.

Most persons realize if their PA in a HT1000 dies, they end up
Replacing the Entire RF Board! and that can be expensive. We
have a boneyard full of dead radios as a result of techs trying
to beat the odds.

Is it worth it ? NO

Monty
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k4wtf
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Post by k4wtf »

OX wrote:I don't remember the actual calc, but someone told me that for every extra watt of power, you increase range by a small percentage, but it was limited obviously by other factors such as terrain, antenna gain, etc.
You square your power to double your range. I SERIOUSLY doubt that you want to be stairing at 25w though. You're seriously NOT going to see any difference you can quantify going from 5w to 6w.

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k4wtf
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Post by k4wtf »

Monty wrote:Most persons realize if their PA in a HT1000 dies, they end up Replacing the Entire RF Board! and that can be expensive. We have a boneyard full of dead radios as a result of techs trying to beat the odds.

Hrm. Those would make nice radios for our police/fire explorers. They don't need TX to begin with. Anyone got any HT1000's with dead PAs that they'd like to donate to a good cause?

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mt1000ff
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Post by mt1000ff »

Dont forget that when using a speaker mike that the radio will be most likly clipped to your belt with antenna right next to several improtant internal organs no matter which side it is on. I worked an airshow a couple of months ago with lots of traffic on our trunked system. For several days I had a tingling feeling right next to where the radio was. Now I try to alternate sides on where i hang the radio.

Tim
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70351
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Post by 70351 »

mt1000ff wrote:I had a tingling feeling right next to where the radio was.

Tim
Sometimes I get a *tingling* feeling around my waist area too, but I didn't think it was from my radio.


Randy
I Never asked, tried to sell, or even so much as hinted about RSS. The moderators decided to "tag" me for no reason. This is what happens when you ask for help on the board. Your name gets smeared for something you didn't do.
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Post by afterimage84 »

mt1000ff wrote:Dont forget that when using a speaker mike that the radio will be most likly clipped to your belt with antenna right next to several improtant internal organs no matter which side it is on. I worked an airshow a couple of months ago with lots of traffic on our trunked system. For several days I had a tingling feeling right next to where the radio was. Now I try to alternate sides on where i hang the radio.

Tim

lol....its tingling....making my pants tight in the front...STRANGER DANGER!!


but seriously...please. what a load. don't let ur imagination get the best of you.
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Post by mancow »

70351 wrote:I just purchased a VHF HT1000 that had been refurbed, and it arrived set at 7-watts output! Whoever set the stupid thing had all the setpoints maxed out for some reason. I'm just hoping I caught it in time, but it will do at least 7 watts from what I've seen. Of course I immediately turned it down to 5 watts max, which is Motorola's spec for the VHF HT1000.


Randy

Hey, I got an ebay astro saber vhf once that was putting out 10 watts!!! I didn't even know that was possible. Plus, it had a regular saber antenna somehow screwed into it. That's when I realized what the hole in the threaded antenna post was for. (To save the SMA I guess).


mancow
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