Saber Keyload HELP!!

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:27 pm

Does anyone know how the hell to make a Saber keyload with a TKN8531A and a Hirose adapter with the letter "D" stamped on it??

I have been trying for nearly an hour and get fail every time. I ohmed out the 8531A and all is well, i cleaned contacts on everything, still no dice.

I can keyload the radio fine with a direct cable i cobbled together from parts, a Saber speaker mic connector and a MX300 speaker mic cable. But i really wanted to make this work so i could leave the Hirose on the radio.

ANY suggestions??

I put the Hirose adapter on the radio, turn it on, connect the 8531A and it doesn't display KEYLOAD like it does when i connect the other direct cable.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:27 pm

BUMP...

Still looking for help with this. Everything seems fine but it won't keyload with the 8531 and "D" hirose adapter, but it works fine with a home made 8506 cable.

adfradiotech · Post by **adfradiotech** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:20 pm

Hi,

The SABER adapter with the "D" is the correct adapter, and the 8531
is the correct cable. Are you sure you are getting the 8531 plug seated
correctly ??? I have the same setup to fill my Systems Saber's and
they work as they should. Is your cable ok ??? Sounds like that is
the problem as you are not getting the keyload in the display.

Hope this helps.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:28 pm

The cable seems fine, i ohmed it out from end to end, all the connections are correct according to the batlabs site and the T3011 manual showing the cables. The cable schematic matches my cable that is.

I think it's something wrong with the hirose adapters. I took one apart and soldered a jumper from pin 10 to antenna ground like the 8506 cable, and then when i put the hirose adapter on the radio it now shows KEYLOAD because of the jumper, and i loaded a key into two radios now without troubles.

So the question is, what is wrong with the hirose adapter that it's not switching to KEYLOAD on its own when connecting the 8531 cable?? I did some searching and there is a TON of unanswered posts about this exact same issue, getting a key loaded with a hirose adapter and the 8531A cable.

Which model of cable is yours, A, B, C, D???

I still want to find someone with a later revision of the cable so that i can get them to tell me how its wired and compare that to my A revision cable. Made the A cable isn't compatible with the Saber "D" hirose adapter.

DJP126 · Post by **DJP126** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:48 pm

Does your 8531 cable ground pin 10? From what you've written above, this sounds like it should resolve the issue.

adfradiotech · Post by **adfradiotech** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:49 pm

Hi,

My cable is a TKN-8531B. My HighRose adapter is the one with the D.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:11 pm

Yes and no, on the KVL end of the cable there is a 1k resistor from pin 10 which the green wire, to pin 2 which is ground on the KVL, this is supposed to cause the hirose adapter to switch pin 10 to ground to set the radio into Keyload mode but it does not.

All the info i can find says this cable is the correct one, wired correctly, yada yada, to keyload using a hirose adapter with the "D" stamped on it but it doesn't work.

I assume there is something wrong with the hirose adapter since it is not making it go into keyload. Though i have two of them and neither work, so i wonder.

On the hirose adapter, when on the radio the two pin positions closest to the radio and parallel with it are the pins that get jumpered, the one to the left is gnd and the one to the right is unknown but it should be the select line that is jumpered to ground with the resistor.

That's the best explanantion i can give since the damn pins aren't numbered.

On this thread by Mancow..

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... ght=hirose

It shows that the pins are Spkr and Gnd, though his picture is of the plug that goes into the hirose adapter so it's a mirror image of what the adapter would be.

So my question is, how are they expecting the radio to be put into keyload mode by grounding the Spkr line to Ground through a 1k resistor??

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:14 pm

adfradiotech wrote:Hi,

My cable is a TKN-8531B. My HighRose adapter is the one with the D.

How is your cable wired then? Can you take a picture or describe the wire colors going to each pin on the KVL end and maybe even ohm it out and refer to Mancow's diagram to tell me which color from the KVL end goes to which pin on the hirose end?

There HAS to be a difference, because there is a lot of people with this problem.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:47 pm

have you checked and replaced the resistor?

Its set that way to the adapter DOESN'T go into keyload mode unless the cable is connected.

I have the same problem here, just haven't had time to really look into it.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:06 pm

I have checked the resistor, 1k, just as the T3011DX manual shows for this cable.

I might just replace that resistor for the heck of it, it's about the only thing i haven't tried!

Let me know if you look into it and find a solution!

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:42 pm

Also have you checked the hirose adapter WITH the KVL cable attached?

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:47 pm

What do you mean?

If you mean have i checked the connection from the adapter's contacts that connect to the back of the radio to the other end of the cable that connects to the KVL, then yes. But not all of the lines are directly connected, the hirose adapter is still responsible for switching pin 10 to ground but it doesn't.

I have two of these hirose adapters with the "D" stamped on them, neither will keyload but all the connections seem fine. And the fact that i can ground pin ten in the adapter to ground and then it loads fine tells me that the WE, KID, and KEY lines are fine.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:25 pm

Ok, here's the deal..

I got a hold of a T3020 KVL and connected this cable to it than connected it to the radio, went to KEYLOAD right away... But, with the T3011 it still wouldn't switch to KEYLOAD when connecting the cable.

This got me thinking. I compared the connections inside the KVL. On the 3020 pin 2 of the cable connector is connected directly to pin 9 in the flex to the connector. On the T3011 i have pin 2 goes through the flex to the circuit board, and so does pin 9. Though the ohm meter does show continuity between pins 2 and 9 it will not put the radio into KEYLOAD when connected.

This got me thinking.. Different revisions on the KVL connector flex perhaps? I took the keyload cable's KVL end apart and put a jumper from pin 2 to pin 9 to make sure they are both at ground potential. Pin 10 isn't connected inside the KVL, it's just used as a space to solder in the green wire from the cable and one side of the 1k resistor to pin 2. The jumper i added just makes sure that no matter which KVL it gets connected to it will always have pin 10 to ground through the 1k resistor.

Guess what?

KEYLOAD!

Maybe others with the T3011 just got lucky and had a revision that works. You could also open the KVL and put a jumper across pins 2 and 9 to make sure both are at ground, but i decided it would be a lot easier to put a jumper in the cable.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:42 am

And to add yet more controversy to the mix

I have another KVl cable, TKN8351A that DOES not havea jumper between pin 2 and pin 9 or the 1k resistor.

Guess what, it doesn't work either.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:53 am

Try taking a 1k resistor and put one side to pin 10 with the green wire and the other side goes across pins 2 and 9. Then you have the same thing as mine now.

Weird how there seems to be so many versions of the 8531A cable?

I got an email last night from a guy that is a lurker here and read through this thread, he said his cable had the green wire clipped back and wasn't used.

So he cut back the cable farther to get the green wire and resoldered the entire KVL end to make it like mine, adding the resistor as mentioned, and now he can keyload his Saber using the hirose adapter.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:14 am

yup green wire is missing in this one too

really wierd

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:21 am

Here is my theory...

There is two versions of the 8531A, and one is for use with the adapters.

The X9000 doesn't make use of the green wire which is pin 3 of the hirose connector. I don't have the Spectra keyload adapter so i don't know if it's used for that.

Maybe it was a later revision thing where they added the resistor and green wire to make it compatible with the saber hirose adapter?

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:01 pm

That's probaby safe bet. I think that's where the hirose first showed up and on the expo as well.

previous secure radios used the older micor cable.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:11 pm

Now that i have a working cable i could replicate these buggers to no end if i had the parts to.

Now i need to find someone with a box full of MX300 speaker mics that want's to give them away to get rid of them, LOL.

Take and MX300 speaker mic cable and reconfigure the radio end like the 8531 with the resistor, and then put a Hirose connector on the other end. The Hirose connector only costs $11 from Mouser.

I got a couple from Tom in D.C. today to make a Hirose headset for my Saber II. They are small, but i don't see a major problem working with them. The only minor problem i have is that i don't currently own a allen wrench small enough to remove/install the set screw holding the cable strain relief in the connector.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:43 pm

Having a brain fart here, where does the green wire need to go?

edit:

Heh so many posts on this I missed it. I'll have to run to rat shack since I'm out of 1k resistors and replace the green wire.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:07 pm

The green wire goes to pin 10, top right contact on the KVL end.

I just got into another discussion via email where the cable didn't have the green wire connected on the hirose end either. So once you dig out the green wire on the KVL end check it with an ohm meter to pin 3 in the hirose connector. I'm working on a pinout picture of the keyload cable's hirose wiring.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:47 pm

guess what?

green wire isn't connected at the hirose end either!

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:19 pm

Even better this stupid hirose plug is now trashed....

!@#&*&%@

What is wrong with these things - micro tip iron and they are real pain to heat up to take solder?

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:50 pm

I didn't have a problem with the one i just did, but they are tricky with their size. I just started with pre-tinned wires and had the plug done in few minutes.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:53 pm

I built one using a new old stock MX300 speaker mic cable and a new Hirose connector from Tom in D.C.

If anyone wants a shot at buying it i put it on eBay to help pay for my agony of trying different adapters and cables, etc. LOL

Ebay Item # 7578468440

I got $15 into the cable, and $7.50 into the hirose connector. And with the labor involved building it i think $40 is a fair price.

The TKN8531C goes for $84.00 from MOL and this one is an exact duplicate now of the "C" revision except i also added the jumper "just in case"

I borrowed a "C" revision cable locally to open it up and look it over, the connections were exactly the same as the "A" revision cable. But, it still didn't work with my Saber hirose adapter, which is the same problem this cables owner was having, so i added the jumper and now his cable works with his T3011DX. Beforehand he was using a T3020 and it worked fine, but had the same problem as me and it wouldn't work with the T3011.

Anyway, there is one that is guaranteed to work in case anyone is interested.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:37 am

Its the old crummy wires that were in the existing cable that I retinned and they still were difficult. Heat kept getting transfered to the outside housing of the hirose instead of where it belong.

Oh well, I'll just grab a connector from Digikey.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:40 pm

That's why i used a NOS cable i found, i had another MX300 speaker mic but the cable is crap on it. I plan on just removing the connector from it and using some cat5 if i have to make another keyload cable for something.

Saber Keyload HELP!!

Saber Keyload HELP!!

PROBLEM SOLVED!!