Australian Police gone digital

[Motoman]

I live in NSW and all of Sydney CBD and outer region police have gone digital. I know u can still moniter then with a uniden digital scanner as they haven't gone ecyrption. However does anyone know can u moniter the service with an Astro or Digital capable radio. In other words could u use an Astro Saber? or Some Icom radios use digital. Also for programming for say an XTS3000 do u just punch in the frequency or do u need to set a digital setting? Cheers.

[mr.syntrx]

Yeah, just program the frequencies into your radio, set the signalling type to ASTRO, and the RX unmute rule to Digital CSQ.

If you don't already have a radio, don't invest in one specifically to listen to NSW Police, or you'll be very disappointed soon. They're in the process of actively moving to full crypto in the greater Sydney area by reprogramming and keying radios LAC by LAC, and they'll reach this point very soon. If you listen to the input frequencies, you'll find that most cars are already running crypto, but they're decrypting it before sending it to the output frequencies for the benefit of radios that have not been upgraded.

When all this is said and done, the only NSWP channel you'll get to listen to around Sydney is Channel X, the analogue liason channel.

[Bruce1807]

They gone trunked or convensional?

[mr.syntrx]

Conventional - NSW cops won't touch the GRN with a 10 foot pole. Victoria Police have a brand new 9600 system to play on in the Melbourne/Geelong area though, as do WA Police in Perth.

[Motoman]

Thanks Mr. Syntrx but if they go encrypted will it be rolling or just a set code? I'm in the NSW Rural Fire Service and all of our vehicle radios have been upgraded to XTL5000 and we have XTS3000 and 5000. But it gets funnier we still run a normal analog voting system so many features wasted they may as well have stuck to MTS2000 and MCS2000; has worked perfectly fine in the CFA and still does. Do u know if their planning to go the same was as the police? I've been out of the radio comms scene for awhile got into cars and big engines. Is it just police moving to ecryption? Cheers

[mr.syntrx]

The police are running DES-OFB with over the air rekeying, but analogue areas will stay in the clear. The design of the radios and system is such that you're unlikely to get ahold of the keys unless someone from the Radio Electronics Unit leaks them (unlikely), but they'll change the keys periodically over the air anyway making leaked keys useless in short order.

RFS aren't going to use encryption, they're upgrading their radios to comply with a GRN mandate to go fully digital by 2009, but the PMR network will stay analogue. SES and the other agencies on the GRN are doing the same thing. There are rumours that ASNSW will start using encryption too, like their ACT counterparts, but we'll have to wait and see.

[pks]

Does anyone know if GRN is going 9600?

[escomm]

The police are running DES-OFB with over the air rekeying, but analogue areas will stay in the clear. The design of the radios and system is such that you're unlikely to get ahold of the keys unless someone from the Radio Electronics Unit leaks them (unlikely), but they'll change the keys periodically over the air anyway making leaked keys useless in short order.

Of course if there is a leaked radio then all those security dollars will be wasted

Doesn't your government have anything better to waste money on?

[mr.syntrx]

The police are running DES-OFB with over the air rekeying, but analogue areas will stay in the clear. The design of the radios and system is such that you're unlikely to get ahold of the keys unless someone from the Radio Electronics Unit leaks them (unlikely), but they'll change the keys periodically over the air anyway making leaked keys useless in short order.

Of course if there is a leaked radio then all those security dollars will be wasted

Doesn't your government have anything better to waste money on?

the New South Wales Government are experts on wasting money

The Police digtal system is nothing compared to the state's 3600bps SmartZone OmniLink monetary black hole. They're in the middle of replacing about 20,000 perfectly good MTS2000, XTS3000s and MCS2000s for no particular reason other than that they want digital talkgroups - not that this will provide any benefit at all to most users.

[mr.syntrx]

Does anyone know if GRN is going 9600?

Not soon. There's certainly no money for it this year or next year in the state budget, and they haven't published a forecast of that size (it's a forklift upgrade after all.)

[pks]

Does anyone know if GRN is going 9600?

Not soon. There's certainly no money for it this year or next year in the state budget, and they haven't published a forecast of that size (it's a forklift upgrade after all.)

What I mean is, are they keeping the existing 3600 system but upgrading all voice channels to digital? Or they are dumping the entire 3600 and going for 9600? Sorry for the confusion.

[mr.syntrx]

They're getting rid of all their analogue talkgroups, and making all the traffic channels ASTRO, on their existing 3600bps system. It'll cost a lot of money and achieve nothing, but that's the immediate plan.

[pks]

If they are keeping the 3600bps system, why do they need to replace the XTS3000s? I thought it already supports digital talkgroups? Unless if they decide to upgrade it to 9600bps, which requires a particular firmware version for the XTS3000s.

[mr.syntrx]

(a) Because the radios are all eight years old, being ex SORN and (b) A lot of agencies have bloated fleet maps that won't fit in the XTS 3000.