Dead Battery

[tuckerm]

I got my Motorola XTL-2500 radio installed a few nights ago, but am having issues with a dead battery. I've got a variety of things it could be, so I thought I would run it by you guys here first.

The first night I got it installed, I powered off the car around 11pm and went to bed. Next morning around 7, I tried to start it but had a dead battery. I did leave my cell phone charger plugged in (I have never done this) but the master switch to the remote head was off. I jump started it and it started immediately. The voltages was around 12.39 before I started it. The car started fine the rest of the day and I shut it off around 7pm last night.

This morning (7am again), It had a hard time starting...but it did. It was the battery again. No car charger was plugged in nor was a master left on. Drove it for a half hour, and then, parked it at 830am. Tried starting again around 3pm, struggled like the morning, but did start.

I have a direct lead (pretty good size gage wire) coming from my battery to the XTL-2500. The radio did not come with a power cable, so I used one of my cheapy RadioShack ones I had laying around: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=3870003. It's basically dropping from a nice sized gage wire to that smaller wire.

Another factor is my battery is 5-6 years old.

I've scheduled an appointment for a new battery to be installed in the next few days, however, I'm wondering if there's anything I'm doing wrong above that could indicate issues? I had the exact same setup with my Astro Spectra (110w, the XTL-2500 is a 50w) and never had any issues. Is this just coincidence or am I having some other issues?

Thanks!
Tucker

[escomm]

XTLs draw .5 to .75 amps of current at 12VDC whether they are "powered on" or not. This current draw coupled with your old battery is almost certainly to blame. Here is one solution you may want to consider: http://www.chargeguard.com/

[tuckerm]

XTLs draw .5 to .75 amps of current at 12VDC whether they are "powered on" or not. This current draw coupled with your old battery is almost certainly to blame. Here is one solution you may want to consider: http://www.chargeguard.com/

Excellent suggestion, escomm. I just ordered one for my car and I'll put in the new battery after I get it installed. Thanks!

[Jason]

Shame they dont have the standby draw ratings of the Astro Spectra or Spectra.

I've seen similar problems, even with a brand new car/new battery. Programming the ignition lead from BLANK to Required, and setting the auto power down timer will resolve this as well with some success but I would say the chargeguard would give other advantages as well.

[N4KVE]

If your car battery is 5-6 years old, it's living on borrowed time. My GF just had to replace her Delco battery & it's 2 1/2 years old. Just died one day. A fully charged car battery should be 12.75 volts. Probably has a weak cell. I've worked for many years at a GM dealer, & we sold more batteries than Cokes from the machine. Believe it or not, Walmart has great prices on good US made batteries, & doesn't charge to install. Disconnect the radio, & I bet your car battery still dies. Good luck. GARY N4KVE

[tuckerm]

Shame they dont have the standby draw ratings of the Astro Spectra or Spectra.

I've seen similar problems, even with a brand new car/new battery. Programming the ignition lead from BLANK to Required, and setting the auto power down timer will resolve this as well with some success but I would say the chargeguard would give other advantages as well.

This seems to have done the trick. No dead battery this afternoon, however, the real test will be Friday morning.

I still have the chargeguard coming as that's a good idea.

[GlennD]

We have seen this problem in some of our XTL5000s that fleet installed into police cars. If the red
wire at the radio has continous 12V then the control head red wire must also be connected to cont 12V.

This is shown in the later install CDs but it is wrong on the original CDs. In our case fleet ran both red
and yellow wires through a timer while leaving power on at the radio.

This resulted in a .8A draw that was draining the battery. Moving the control head wire cured the problem.

[fineshot1]

If its a dash mount:

Main Chasis Power cable should be hot all the time.
Accessory Conn red wire should go to switched +12V ignition source.
Programing; Radio Configuration > Radio Wide > Advanced > Ignition Switch: can be set for "Soft Power Off" or "Required" or "Ignition Only Power-Up"
I use "Soft Power Off" as its more flexible than the others.

If its a remote head mount:

Main Chasis Power cable should be hot all the time.
Remote Head red wire should go to a hot all the time +12V source.
Remote Head yellow wire should go to switched +12V ignition source.
Programing; Radio Configuration > Radio Wide > Advanced > Ignition Switch: can be set for "Soft Power Off" or "Required" or "Ignition Only Power-Up"
I use "Soft Power Off" as its more flexible than the others.

If its set up this way you should have no problem with battery drain unless the battery is close to end of life. We have many in service set up this way
and have never had a problem.

[515]

I assume the XTL2500's are the same, but the XTL5000's draw almost no current when wired correctly and powered down.

I did some experimenting with a remote mount XTL5000 a few months back, and found that depending on how the red and yellow control head wires are connected, the radio could be in a state where it still draws about 700 mA continuously even though it appears off.

I found that if CPS setting "Control Head(s) Required for Power Up" (under Radio Wide, Control Head tab) is unchecked, and ignition sense operation was set to BLANK, and both red and yellow wires were connected to switched +12V while the remote mounted radio is connected directly to the battery, the radio will draw about 700 mA continuously even though the control head appears off. This may happen with other ignition sense CPS settings, as well.

One simple way to avoid this is to check the radio's programming and make sure "Control Head(s) Required for Power Up" is checked. Basically this prevents the remote mounted radio from staying on if the control head is disconnected from the radio or power. I don't believe this setting is checked by default, but unless you're using the radio without a control head (data-only radio or something) it doesn't hurt to check/enable it. It's a good to have the radio power down in case the control head is accidently disconnected from power.

The remote mounted control head gets its power from the red wire (about 140 mA).

As fineshot1 stated above, for a remote mount radio, the red wire NEEDS to go to hot all the time +12V.

The yellow wire is the 'ignition sense' wire. This needs to go to +12V switched if you want ignition sense operation. If you don't want ignition sense, program the radio for Ignition Switch = BLANK, and leave it disconnected or it can be connected to switched +12V in case you want ignition sense later (just reprogram).

[Bill_G]

... reading with interest as we get ready to install over a hundred of these. thanks guys.

[allanif]

I assume the XTL2500's are the same, but the XTL5000's draw almost no current when wired correctly and powered down.

I did some experimenting with a remote mount XTL5000 a few months back, and found that depending on how the red and yellow control head wires are connected, the radio could be in a state where it still draws about 700 mA continuously even though it appears off.

I found that if CPS setting "Control Head(s) Required for Power Up" (under Radio Wide, Control Head tab) is unchecked, and ignition sense operation was set to BLANK, and both red and yellow wires were connected to switched +12V while the remote mounted radio is connected directly to the battery, the radio will draw about 700 mA continuously even though the control head appears off. This may happen with other ignition sense CPS settings, as well.

One simple way to avoid this is to check the radio's programming and make sure "Control Head(s) Required for Power Up" is checked. Basically this prevents the remote mounted radio from staying on if the control head is disconnected from the radio or power. I don't believe this setting is checked by default, but unless you're using the radio without a control head (data-only radio or something) it doesn't hurt to check/enable it. It's a good to have the radio power down in case the control head is accidently disconnected from power.

The remote mounted control head gets its power from the red wire (about 140 mA).

As fineshot1 stated above, for a remote mount radio, the red wire NEEDS to go to hot all the time +12V.

The yellow wire is the 'ignition sense' wire. This needs to go to +12V switched if you want ignition sense operation. If you don't want ignition sense, program the radio for Ignition Switch = BLANK, and leave it disconnected or it can be connected to switched +12V in case you want ignition sense later (just reprogram).

Hi 515,

With regards to remote mounted control head drawn current, you mentioned 140mA. Is this the maximum drawn current for XTL 2500 control head?
I cannot find this in the manual for Control head current consumption.

I need this information because I have XTL 2500 remote mount radio. I'm using 40 m of remote mount cable, since the distance between control head and transceiver is 40 meters. In this case I also need 40 meters of power cable (for red, yellow & black wires) to power-up the control head, 12VDC.

So if control head is consuming only 140mA of current, do you think #14AWG cable size is enough to run 40 meters of cable (for 12VDC source) without voltage drops under the load? Need your advice peeps. Thanks a lot

[Bill_G]

#14 is good for 6A per a standard chart.

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/wiregauge.html

[Jim202]

I think the high current draw on the XTL mobiles when the ignition is off is some what dependent on the firmware in the radio. I have to confirm the problem of the radio killing the vehicle battery when the ignition control is used and both the yellow, red wires are tied to the ignition on / off feed. We have a GMC Denali that ran into this problem. The radio killed the battery several times until I was informed of the problem. Moving the red wire going to the control head to a constant +12 volt feed fixed the dead battery problem.

I have an older XTL2500 in my F250 diesel truck. Have not seen the battery problem in the truck as of yet. My red and yellow wires are tied to ignition control. Planning on a firmware upgrade and will move the red wire to a constant hot feed at that time.

Jim

[GlennD]

I have seen this problem in some older XTL2500s that were vender installed and in very recent XTL5000s that were city installed.

We had a fire engine changeout where we only swapped out the 2500 for a 5000. It turns out that if the speaker is from the radio connector the radio will receive on the last channel even though the head is totally dead. The 2500s did not do this but did have excessive drain. With the 2500 we never noticed the miswire, Since the engine is plugged into shore power in the station the excess current drain was not a problem.

Moving the red wire cured the problem but we would not believe Fire until they brought in the problem engine. How could it be receiving with a dead head?

[d119]

How could it be receiving with a dead head?

"Control Head(s) required for power up" is unchecked.

[GlennD]

Thanks, I just looked and the default is the box unchecked.

[allanif]

#14 is good for 6A per a standard chart.

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/wiregauge.html

Hi Bill,

You're right. But the issue here is the voltage drop in the wire because of long cable runs.
I need to know the control head max. current consumption to be able to know the wiring size needed for 40m of power cable needed to powerup the control head (red, yellow & black wires).

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

For example from the link above(Voltage Drop Calculator):

If I keyin, using 16AWG wire in 131 feet(40m) of cable, using 12VDC power source and current of 500mA at the load (control head).
The voltage drop that would reach at the control head will be 11.455 Volts. But if you change the current to 1A, the voltage at the load will drop to 10.909Volts.
Current consumption at the control head is very significant in choosing the correct cable size in long cable runs.

If 500mA is the maximum current, probably I can use #16AWG wire.
But does anyone knows what is the maximum current at the control head? Thanks

[Jim202]

#14 is good for 6A per a standard chart.

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/wiregauge.html

Hi Bill,

You're right. But the issue here is the voltage drop in the wire because of long cable runs.
I need to know the control head max. current consumption to be able to know the wiring size needed for 40m of power cable needed to powerup the control head (red, yellow & black wires).

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

For example from the link above(Voltage Drop Calculator):

If I keyin, using 16AWG wire in 131 feet(40m) of cable, using 12VDC power source and current of 500mA at the load (control head).
The voltage drop that would reach at the control head will be 11.455 Volts. But if you change the current to 1A, the voltage at the load will drop to 10.909Volts.
Current consumption at the control head is very significant in choosing the correct cable size in long cable runs.

If 500mA is the maximum current, probably I can use #16AWG wire.
But does anyone knows what is the maximum current at the control head? Thanks

You need to look at what the max draw is at high RX volume. In most of the commercial radios, this current may go up to 1.5 amps or so. I didn't read through the entire thread here to see just which radio your using, but I would look at using something larger than #16. That seems to be on the short side for a long run to feed the control head. Some radios have the speaker audio stage in the head like the XTL series mobiles and others have the audio stage in the radio like the Spectra and those of that vintage. Either way, don't short yourself on power to feed the radio.

Jim

[515]

140mA is what I measured on the red XTL5000 O5 control head wire, but it was in a squelched/muted or low volume state. As Jim stated, if the audio amp is in the control head, I would expect it to go up to an amp or two at higher volumes.

[fineshot1]

#14 is good for 6A per a standard chart.

http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/wiregauge.html

Hi Bill,

You're right. But the issue here is the voltage drop in the wire because of long cable runs.
I need to know the control head max. current consumption to be able to know the wiring size needed for 40m of power cable needed to powerup the control head (red, yellow & black wires).

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

For example from the link above(Voltage Drop Calculator):

If I keyin, using 16AWG wire in 131 feet(40m) of cable, using 12VDC power source and current of 500mA at the load (control head).
The voltage drop that would reach at the control head will be 11.455 Volts. But if you change the current to 1A, the voltage at the load will drop to 10.909Volts.
Current consumption at the control head is very significant in choosing the correct cable size in long cable runs.

If 500mA is the maximum current, probably I can use #16AWG wire.
But does anyone knows what is the maximum current at the control head? Thanks

The control head power cable red hot wire is fused with a 5A ATC fuse, so its max draw is probably approx 1/2 that.
The yellow ign wire is fused at 3A and I am pretty sure the draw is less than 1A although I have never measured it.

[allanif]

You need to look at what the max draw is at high RX volume. In most of the commercial radios, this current may go up to 1.5 amps or so. I didn't read through the entire thread here to see just which radio your using, but I would look at using something larger than #16. That seems to be on the short side for a long run to feed the control head. Some radios have the speaker audio stage in the head like the XTL series mobiles and others have the audio stage in the radio like the Spectra and those of that vintage. Either way, don't short yourself on power to feed the radio.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm using XTL 2500 radio. I don't know why Motorola didn't provide this power cable for 40m runs but they provided remote mount cable of the same length.
I'm clarifying this cable from my distributor, first he informed that this cable is not required but I read some forums as well in XTL 2500 manual that this power cable is required for remote mount configuration. Is it possible that this cable is not required for remote configuration?
I saw Audio PA in the control head in the manual, but no current stated. If 1.5A is typical, can I use #12 AWG?

[Jim202]

Hi Jim,

I'm using XTL 2500 radio. I don't know why Motorola didn't provide this power cable for 40m runs but they provided remote mount cable of the same length.
I'm clarifying this cable from my distributor, first he informed that this cable is not required but I read some forums as well in XTL 2500 manual that this power cable is required for remote mount configuration. Is it possible that this cable is not required for remote configuration?
I saw Audio PA in the control head in the manual, but no current stated. If 1.5A is typical, can I use #12 AWG?[/quote]


You have to understand the mentality of how Motorola thinks and designs (doesn't design maybe a better statement as most of their radios are designed by other companies today) it's equipment. The mobile radios are designed to function in a vehicle for the most part. This goes with the thought that you have the vehicle frame and metal parts to supply the common (ground) negative path for part of the power supply wiring. Then you have the vehicle wiring that is used for the low current source for turning the radio on and off with ignition control. Hence there generally is not much need to have long power cables for the control head. The remote mounted radio does require that you have a control cable going between the radio and the control head. This cable does come in lengths from short to very long in the new radios like the XTL mobiles.

So with that all said, in your case, yes the control head power should use the larger size wire to reduce the voltage drop. You can probably get away with the # 12 wire for the control head power feed. It might be easier to go to your local Home Depot or Lowe's and get some # 12 electrical wire that has the gray or cream color jacket. Some people call it romex type cable. That way it will be easier to handle for a long run and you won't have to worry about twisting and tie wrapping everything together.

Jim