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Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

This forum is for discussions regarding System Infrastructure and Related Equipment. This includes but is not limited to repeaters, base stations, consoles, voters, Voice over IP, system design and implementation, and other related topics.

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Birken Vogt
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:53 pm

Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Birken Vogt » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:40 pm

Our customer has one site that is on a lonely mountaintop and used to be isolated from the outside world, RF only, no landline.

We have no easy MW path to anything else useful, either. It could be done, but...$$$$

These days there is a cell site nearby owned by ATC. The primary tenant seems to be Verizon but I think at least 3 of the big 4 are also there. It is fed by a new fiber underground at the very least, and maybe some of the second rate ones have their own MW, who knows.

Our incumbent landline carrier is AT&T.

In your guys' experience, is it possible to order a T1 line backhaul using a site like this?

(Point to point T1 to our offices elsewhere).

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kt2728
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby kt2728 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:07 pm

They probably dont have any TDM type facilities there (DSO, DS1, DS3, etc) its probably all Ethernet based services. You would probably have to provide a conduit from the AT&T cabinet to your own it that type of service would work.
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Birken Vogt
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:53 pm

Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Birken Vogt » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:54 pm

That is the story I have been getting from elsewhere. It is probably correct, especially since this is a newer site without much legacy anything in it.

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Astro Spectra
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Astro Spectra » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:39 pm

If your customer is big enough I have no doubt AT&T would provide service, either from the mux feeding the cell site or perhaps using a spare fibre or fibres. No one pulls just a single fibre pair so there will be dark spares.

Jim202
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Jim202 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:19 am

Astro Spectra wrote:If your customer is big enough I have no doubt AT&T would provide service, either from the mux feeding the cell site or perhaps using a spare fibre or fibres. No one pulls just a single fibre pair so there will be dark spares.


I have found that AT&T are a bunch of idiots to deal with. If it isn't on their active planning, it won't happen. It amazes me they can even make a profit with the stupid way they do things. Looking at the way they maintain their outside plant is a good example.

When I first moved into my house here, I called AT&T and asked about a DSL connection for Internet use. Nope, no more ports available. So I asked why they won't just add another piece of equipment. Nope, can't do that. So I asked the dumb question of "I thought you were in the business of trying to make money"? That didn't go over well at all. So told them thank you for the lack of support for your customers and I would take my business to their competitor. Ended up happy with a 60 MGB business connection with the cable company and have been very happy since. It even came with a modem that supplies a gateway address. Even bundled my Internet and phone service. AT&T was charging me $75 for the phone. I now get the phone service for $30. Like I said, AT&T is a bunch of idiots that don't know how to keep their customers happy at a reasonable cost.

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Astro Spectra
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Astro Spectra » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:55 am

Hi Jim yes for consumers they a bit useless but they don't make any money from retail.

Birken Vogt
Posts: 259
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Birken Vogt » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:43 pm

They are pretty worthless for our RTO circuits, too, but I would guess we are hardly a step above retail in their estimation, small potatoes.

KE7JFF
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby KE7JFF » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:05 pm

If Verizon owns the fiber to the site, they generally will be able to figure out something for you, but that was circa 2006.
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Bill_G
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Re: Getting Backhaul Out of a Nearby Cell Site?

Postby Bill_G » Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:57 am

Birken Vogt wrote:Our customer has one site that is on a lonely mountaintop and used to be isolated from the outside world, RF only, no landline.

We have no easy MW path to anything else useful, either. It could be done, but...$$$$

These days there is a cell site nearby owned by ATC. The primary tenant seems to be Verizon but I think at least 3 of the big 4 are also there. It is fed by a new fiber underground at the very least, and maybe some of the second rate ones have their own MW, who knows.

Our incumbent landline carrier is AT&T.

In your guys' experience, is it possible to order a T1 line backhaul using a site like this?

(Point to point T1 to our offices elsewhere).


Do you actually need a T1, or just a few DS0's for a couple base stations?

If you really need T1, and don't have LOS from this site to another customer owned site, but the cell site does, they could build a microwave pass through hop. It's just a matter of getting licensed, submitting a plan to ATC, signing a lease agreement, and getting a notice to proceed.

If you only need a few DS0's, you can try to use cellular as the backhaul with a CradlePointe modem capable of a few hundred kilobit. You'll have to convert the site to ip control of some kind (Telex, Barix, Zetron, JPS, etc). It won't be a five nine site because cellular providers cannot guarantee connectivity, but it works.


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