Users may not create topics, posts, or private messages containing or relating to the following material (especially pertaining to Motorola copyrighted software, unless you want Motorola to come along and shut this site down):

  • Listing for sale or trade of, or links to sites offering for sale or trade of, or giving away, Radio
    Service Software (RSS) or Customer Programming Software (CPS)
  • Profanity, pornography, defamation, or slanderous remarks directed towards any individual or entity
  • Commercial advertising (except in the Batboard Vendors forum, as approved by the Admin/Mod Staff)
  • Any other items which may be deemed as offensive

If any topics, posts, or private messages containing or relating to the aforementioned material are brought to the attention of the Admin/Mod Staff, they will be deleted.

Additional FAQ items appear here in Forum Rules. Please review them for posting guidelines and further clarification.

Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

This forum is for discussions regarding System Infrastructure and Related Equipment. This includes but is not limited to repeaters, base stations, consoles, voters, Voice over IP, system design and implementation, and other related topics.

Moderator: Queue Moderator

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:23 pm

Hi all!

Is it possible to convert Conventional Quantar to 9600 Trunking Quantar? We removed Wireline card off Conventional Quantar and replaced conventional EPIC II SCM (CLN6161_) with EPIC IV SCM (CLN7692_). Quantar starts and shows 2 top LEDs: Control On - lit green, and Control Fail - lit red. Other LEDs might flash for a short periods of time, but dark all the rest time.

Problem: now we can't read SCM with any RSS/CSS (have tried all versions from CSS_007_4 through CSS_007_17, so we covered period from 2008 to 2017). I case of 7.6..7.16 versions progress bar reaches 22% and shows "CPS is unable to read the configuration data from the device".

Where is problem can be?

I am thinking in direction go backplane or some other kind of protection (to do not let users to convert Quantars as they want). A few questions to you:

1. Is the backplane the same in conventional and 9600 trunking Quantar?
2. Is the V1 backplane (white metal chassis) fully compatible V2 backplane (gold metal chassis)?
3. Is it possible?
4. Any other ideas?

P.S.
Also, we don’t have site controller and reading SCM directly via patch cord and switch.
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
The Pager Geek
Posts: 1249
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:31 pm
What radios do you own?: Disney FRS

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby The Pager Geek » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:16 pm

1: Yes
2: Yes
3: If you are looking for a stand-alone "trunking" quantar for single site trunking? The only way to make it work with JUST a Quantar is to make it an IR and force it into Site Trunking. IE: Put the EPIC2 controller back in with IR firmware and SRAM. Even then, it won't be 9600 baud.

The EPIC 4s needs a PSC9600 site controller or newer to make it work in Site Trunking, AND you'll also need another Quantar for comms to fly (1 for CC, 1 for Traffic)

Unless someone found a way to get around the site controller requirement with something else. (3rd party controller, etc)
Experienced Provider of Useless Information

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:17 am

Hi, The Pager Geek!

Thanks for your response. Totally agree with you, everything you said is pretty clear. We think absolutely the same! And we have access to PSC9600 and can add it later as well as second Quantar. But current issue is why we can't read SCM to do basic setup? Before connect it to controller, we must to configure it (supply codeplug), right?

Here is what happens when we read it with any CSS version:

Image

This board is F revision (CLN7692F) and as I hope has never been installed and/or configured (it's new from factory in antistatic wrap with PASS sticker).

And one more thing. We thought about to upgrade it from 7.5X to 7.16 release (we have only this SR on CD), but not successfully. When we run SWDL, it shows current release loaded into radio SCM, so connectivity is ok and SCM is responding:

Image

Here is upgrade from our CD:

Image

Upgrade log:

Image

Upgrade fails in any combination of setting (transfer, install, bank #, V1 or V3, etc.):

Any chances to read it via PSC9600? If YES, how to hook them up? We were unable to found any PSC96000 documentation.
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:25 am

Guys,

Can U1 BPID chip (located on backplane) store information about chassis type? Conventional, IR, trunking and so on?
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby d119 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:25 pm

Not that I am aware of. Just contains the station ID # as far as I know.

All the information TPG gave you is, of course, accurate.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:02 pm

Okay, d119. But where esle problem can be? We have a few SCM boards and they are all the same. What else can prevent reading?
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:28 am

Looks like Quantar CSS supports only some particular System Releases (and as result only some particular versions or ranges of SCM firmware). Is there any PDF that clearly shows what CSS needed for particular SCM firmware? I need something like that. Bbecause I have some old CSS in my MOL and it doesn't work too:
Configuration/Service Software for ASTRO®25 System Release 6.10 / 7.4 (04 Jan 2008 Application 51MB)
Configuration/Service Software for the ASTRO 6.10 / 7.4 System Release.br> Revision Number: R012.00.010
Part Number: DLN6455L
Product Applicability: ASTRO 6.x/7.x Systems

It fails with SCM reading. Accordingly to description It's designed for ASTRO 6.x/7.x SRs, but actually it can't handle EPIC 4 with 7.5X firmware loaded into.
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
chartofmaryland
Batboard $upporter
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 11:25 pm
What radios do you own?: Alot

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby chartofmaryland » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:25 pm

Afternoon MotoFan,

When you have the screen back up, can you hit the help and about file in your CSS to show what your part number is for your release?

CoM
If the lights are out when you leave the station and then come on the second you key up, you know you have enough power.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:34 pm

Looks like problem is NOT in CSS. Looks like missed apps in memory:

Image

Image

Who knows how Motorola distribute(ed) these upgrades (SWDL)? Do they require any valid contracts? And those upgrades linked to BPID (Backplane ID) as Quantar conventional upgrades? I am thinking to buy some second hand here on board (if it will work for me of course).
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:36 pm

chartofmaryland wrote:When you have the screen back up, can you hit the help and about file in your CSS to show what your part number is for your release?

Thanks. Release of what? Of my CSS? I know it of course from setup file name or CD cover. I was interested in how to find out matched pairs like SR - SCM Firmware - CSS Version. But now looks like not an issue.
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
The Pager Geek
Posts: 1249
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:31 pm
What radios do you own?: Disney FRS

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby The Pager Geek » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:07 pm

Looks like your SWDL erased the SCM application software prior to the upload, but it bombed the upload due to a version mismatch. I suspect you tried "load and install" and then "load" both failing and ultimately wiping both partitions.

As CoM asked, can you provide:
- CSS Version #. If you are using the one you listed in posted a bit ago (7.4) it won't have a clue what release BR7.16 is.

- Your CSS version MUST be greater than the firmware you are trying to load into the station. (Preferably the same, but doesn't have to be)

The PSC is programmed via hyperterminal scripts. (...if you don't have a core to plug into.) If you have a site controller already, you should be able to read the config files from it and see the layout of the file. Then make changes as needed and jam it back in.

Seems like a ton of work for the ability to hear "chirp chirp" on a radio... but to each his own.
Experienced Provider of Useless Information

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby d119 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:27 am

Last time I bombed both banks of a VPM, it was off to Motorola, hopefully this isn't the case with your SCM. PSC 9600's are generally fairly inexpensive on eBay. I was *given* two of them, but sold them some time ago.

User avatar
motorola_otaku
Posts: 1833
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:03 am
What radios do you own?: 2 turntables and a microphone

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:41 am

Word to the wise when dealing with surplus Astro25 7.x stuff in the future: download every single version of CSS you can get off MOL and, starting at the most recent release, work your way down through the releases until you find one that can communicate with your box. And when you do pull the config from the box save save SAVE, keeping in mind that newer CSS releases won't be able to read the archive file. Keep in mind also that some very old CSS releases (6.x in particular) won't run in Windows 7 and need native Windows XP.

edit: As for your borked EPIC IV SCM, the board itself is *probably* still good but you'll need to toss the firmware SIMM and start over with one with fully loaded and working code installed. I'm all for experimentation and hacking/reworking stuff but when it comes to Astro25 infrastructure you're treading into deep water that most of us have to go to Moto U in Schaumburg to fully understand.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
1. Ability to use fine motor skills
2. Presence of mind

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:28 am

Hi TPG!
The Pager Geek wrote:Looks like your SWDL erased the SCM application software prior to the upload, but it bombed the upload due to a version mismatch. I suspect you tried "load and install" and then "load" both failing and ultimately wiping both partitions.

Yes and no at the same time. Because after reboot, "damaged" board become identical to the new just unsealed board (we were lucky and got bunch of them – all new and in factory plastic wrap). Corruption message appears only after we try to upgrade it with GTR | Quantar | STR SR7.1. Upgrade did not do anything wrong with them, so, problem is not here.
CSS Version #. If you are using the one you listed in posted a bit ago (7.4) it won't have a clue what release BR7.16 is.

We tried all versions for the past 10 years, here is a list: A7.4 R012.00.010, A7.5 R014.00.006, A7.6 R015.00.014, A7.7 R016.00.011, A7.8 R017.00.009, A7.9 R018.00.030, A7.11 R020.00.053, A7.12 R021.00.099, A7.13 R022.00.035, A7.14 R025.00.060, A7.15 R026.00.033, A7.16 R027.00.025, A7.17 R028.00.036. Good CSS collection, right?
Your CSS version MUST be greater than the firmware you are trying to load into the station. (Preferably the same, but doesn't have to be)

Okay, good to know, but none of above listed CSS is working. But 2/3 of them (starting from some version) can read PSC96000 with no issues.
The PSC is programmed via hyperterminal scripts. (...if you don't have a core to plug into.) If you have a site controller already, you should be able to read the config files from it and see the layout of the file. Then make changes as needed and jam it back in.

We don't have a core (I believe that you mean huge cabinet which controls big nets). We just have 2 of Quantars and 2 of PSC9600. As sell as EPIC 3 ans EPIC 4 boards. We married PSC9600 with Quantar via 2 patch cords and switch, but looks like they are not plug&play (we need to do something to let them communicate properly).
Seems like a ton of work for the ability to hear "chirp chirp" on a radio... but to each his own.

Yes, I agree. But it's cool and interesting. And better than drinking or narcotics. Although ... drugs might be cheaper :)
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:42 am

d119 wrote:Last time I bombed both banks of a VPM, it was off to Motorola, hopefully this isn't the case with your SCM. PSC 9600's are generally fairly inexpensive on eBay. I was *given* two of them, but sold them some time ago.

We have 2 of them and got them for a grab price. So, they are here. Also, I am not sure that VPM is.

We connected PSC9600 to switch by using patch cord and 10/100 Base-T port:

Image

And to Ethernet port on EPIC 4 SCM. No other PSC ports are used (no UHSO and no coax cables).

Here is our PSC read (click to enlarge):

Image.
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:56 am

motorola_otaku wrote:Word to the wise when dealing with surplus Astro25 7.x stuff in the future: download every single version of CSS you can get off MOL and, starting at the most recent release, work your way down through the releases until you find one that can communicate with your box.

We act like this and today we will reach the bottom - we got R10 CSS what was used to program these EPIC 4 boards originally. But I don't believe in success, because PSC can be read by the wide range of different CSS. From where I can conclude that CSS version is critical for Astro infrastructure (starting from some particular version of course).
And when you do pull the config from the box save save SAVE, keeping in mind that newer CSS releases won't be able to read the archive file. Keep in mind also that some very old CSS releases (6.x in particular) won't run in Windows 7 and need native Windows XP.

Thanks for advice for codeplugs. And about XP - yes, we already come across with this requirement. It's not a problem at all, we always have XP as well as 2000, 98 and 95 and even pure DOS. We are radio guys since 1998 or something :)
edit: As for your borked EPIC IV SCM, the board itself is *probably* still good but you'll need to toss the firmware SIMM and start over with one with fully loaded and working code installed.

It's not broken as stated above. After restart it become identical to the new board (I meat console output at loading). And there is no SIMM at EPIC 4. Here all chips are flash and soldered onboard. This is not old EPICs like 1, 2 or 3. EPIC 4 can be full upgraded by software and no chip/module swap required.
I'm all for experimentation and hacking/reworking stuff but when it comes to Astro25 infrastructure you're treading into deep water that most of us have to go to Moto U in Schaumburg to fully understand.

Good idea but not realistic for hams from EMEA. Until somebody pay for everything :)
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.

User avatar
MotoFAN
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:46 am
What radios do you own?: Approx. 50: Moto & Kenwood

Re: Quantar Conventional to 9600 Trunking Conversion

Postby MotoFAN » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:53 pm

None of CSS were able to read it. We tried virtually all existing CSS and nothing. But problem has been solved by flashing SCM with another system release (SWDL files). So, these boards arrived from factory without consistent set of files onboard. It's a bit strange, but not a problem at all if you have every release from Moto including upgrade files. The only disadvantage is the original codeplug has missed.
I am biggest fan of XTS2500 and ASTRO Digital Saber.


Return to “Base Stations, Repeaters, General Infrastructure”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest