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Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

This forum is for discussions regarding System Infrastructure and Related Equipment. This includes but is not limited to repeaters, base stations, consoles, voters, Voice over IP, system design and implementation, and other related topics.

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Max
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Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:18 am

I have a Henry C200D30R repeater amp.
Anyone ever try to convert the amp to do simplex operations ? and how
As you know, Henry's repeater amps have no RX if you try and use it for simplex.


Max

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MSS-Dave
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby MSS-Dave » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Have to add a transmit receive relay to it. You can add it externally to the amp. Another thing is whether you want it to key automatically with RF or if you want to have a key line to the radio you using. You can probably find Surplus txrx relays with your choice of connectors on it, DowKey comes to mind. If you don't want to try to Source this stuff on your own, call Henry radio and talk to their Technical Support people. I'm quite sure they can come up with something for you. I don't know if they make that particular amplifier with a relay option but they make quite a few other ones that do so that really shouldn't be a problem.

Max
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:45 pm

Thanks for the reply. I did send the unit to Ted at Henry radio for testing and tuning and asked if they could convert the unit into a simplex operation. Henry radio only makes a 100 watt simplex model , not a 200 watt.

All the 200 watt are for repeater use. I did ask if he could convert the amp for simplex, but he wasn't interested in modifying this amp.

I would be interested in finding someone that could modify the amp for me and i would pay for the work. I would want the relay added internally to the amp so it's not tied to one radio.

If you know anyone that can do the mod, name your price.

Max

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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:46 am

OK, let me rephrase that. I agree i would need some kind of external relay. I would like to to operate n RF if possible.

Can anyone build such a set up for me. I use PayPal and just let me know what it would cost.

Max

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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:32 pm

I was looking at this relay, i think this should work. I just have to find a way to trip the relay.
CX800N-12 Coaxial relay, DPDT, Type-N (6 female), 12v, Tohtsu
It will be hooked up to a MCS2000.
I'll have to see if there's something on the Pinout for the Accessory Connector that i could use.
Any suggestion are appreciated.

Max

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kcbooboo
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby kcbooboo » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:56 am

The 100w amps can have a DPDT relay installed inside, but a 200w amp might be a bit too much power for that kind of setup. The relay will take some number of milliseconds to activate when its circuit senses RF, and the amplifier itself may start putting out power before or while the relay switches. That's not very good for any RF-carrying circuit.

Henry could probably supply you with the relay, board, and coax from one of their 100w amps, but they would most likely provide no warranty with it, and you could damage your amp by using it. When you send the amp back to Henry to be repaired the first thing they'd do is remove any such modifications regardless of where it came from or who installed it.

Bob M.

Max
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:20 am

If i use the CX800N-12 Coaxial relay, DPDT, Type-N (6 female), 12v, Tohtsu using 12vdc to trip the relay, wouldn't that be fast enough to do the job ?
The relay is rated for 800watts.


Max

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MSS-Dave
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby MSS-Dave » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:17 am

Max wrote:If i use the CX800N-12 Coaxial relay, DPDT, Type-N (6 female), 12v, Tohtsu using 12vdc to trip the relay, wouldn't that be fast enough to do the job ?
The relay is rated for 800watts.


Max


Yes, that relay is more than enough to do the job. I don't know anything about the MCS2000 so can't comment about using the accessory port for any switched outputs. If you switch the relay at the same time as the radio keys up, you shouldn't have any problem. The RF sensing relays have a bit of delay (think a few milliseconds...) and for the most part work ok. I've looked a little bit online for RF sensing relay kits and found nothing but I've had limited time. These suppliers come to mind for this type of thing but seems they mostly do sequencing type relay controls to delay switch preamps, transverters and amps. A bit overkill but they should be able to source a relay with RF sense or just the sense circuit for your Tohtsu relay. I bought a sense board years ago from Ramsey Electronics to drive a DowKey relay for a old 2 meter kilowatt amp. Worked fine. Long gone now though.

If by chance you are using a desk microphone with the mobile, you could probably add a switch in the base to complete the relay key circuit when you key the mic. Just have to run the wire from the mic base to the switch, 12 volts can come from the amp supply..

http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/default.asp
http://www.ssbusa.com/index.html
http://w6pql.com/parts_i_can_provide.htm

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chartofmaryland
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby chartofmaryland » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:49 am

Morning Max,

What you also need with that big RF relay is a Ramsey RFS1 kit or similar.

This would trigger your large relay to switch between transmit and receive without having to use logic from the MCS2000

If you were to only use the MCS2000 for activation of the relay you would have to insert a logic line from your microphone cord.

I have done this previously by means of a RJ45 telephone junction box (look up RJ45 surface mount telephone box) where you can then use a stranded CAT5 cable wired to the microphone conductors on the screw terminals and pick off the PTT and ground lines that you can use to key the relay

Clunky but a way to do this without a lot of parts.

Caution, go ahead and think of buying another MCS2000 if you do not already have a spare.

Any slip up in this process as it is not cleanly going to be RF coordinated, may risk the receive side of the unit.

And that would be followed quickly by letting the Receive smoke out.

CoM
If the lights are out when you leave the station and then come on the second you key up, you know you have enough power.

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MSS-Dave
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby MSS-Dave » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:58 am

RFS1 is exactly what I had. They don't sell kits anymore though. You can see the parts list and manual still though here

http://ramseykits.com/cmp/rfs1/default.html

Max
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:23 am

https://i.imgur.com/hnrsyAI.png
I'll use a logic line.
I'm think of using my desk mic RMN5068A
I thought of using the monitor button ( left ) to activate the relay ,then use the PTT ( right ) to TX
This way there is no delay.
Thanks for all the help.
Max

fineshot1
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Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby fineshot1 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:04 am

Not sure if this will help but check it out just in case it will be needed

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/svp-sv-kr
fineshot1
NJ USA

Max
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Convert a Henry Amp to do simplex

Postby Max » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:10 pm

chartofmaryland wrote:Morning Max,

What you also need with that big RF relay is a Ramsey RFS1 kit or similar.

This would trigger your large relay to switch between transmit and receive without having to use logic from the MCS2000

If you were to only use the MCS2000 for activation of the relay you would have to insert a logic line from your microphone cord.

I have done this previously by means of a RJ45 telephone junction box (look up RJ45 surface mount telephone box) where you can then use a stranded CAT5 cable wired to the microphone conductors on the screw terminals and pick off the PTT and ground lines that you can use to key the relay

Clunky but a way to do this without a lot of parts.

Caution, go ahead and think of buying another MCS2000 if you do not already have a spare.

Any slip up in this process as it is not cleanly going to be RF coordinated, may risk the receive side of the unit.

And that would be followed quickly by letting the Receive smoke out.

CoM
Do you have any more info on how to use the RJ45 ?


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