Tone remote control over IP?

[Freeflier]

Hi,

I am facing the following 'challenge' and guess that somebody could help me.

Currently there are 14 MTR2000 base stations that are controlled using MC200/MC250 Deskset tone controllers over 2 wire, local connections (with local I mean that there are no telco direct lines). Some of them work with more than one MTR2000, but most of them only work with a single MTR2000. MDC1200 is currently being used on all the fleets.

Now we need to move the command center (where the Desksets are installed) to a single location, thus forcing the desksets to operate kilometers away from the MTR2000 base stations.

We where encouraged to enable an IP transport solution over a WiMAX network for the deskset+MTR2000 tandem, using gateways at both ends of the link to emulate a 2-wire over an ethernet/IP network.

I have found some gateways but they seem to be used for dispatch environments where only one gateway is installed at the radio site, and there is a PC-based dispatch console at the other side. Such type of solution is not what we need at this time, because for operational purposes, existing deskests should be kept.

I tired to find a related solution on the board with little results. My main concern is related to the tone signalling transport over IP, with the ability to still support MDC1200.

Any help or comments? Thank you!

[Bill_G]

Every time I have tried to do tone control over ip appliances, it's been intermittent. We now only implement hardware control (ptt and cor) which works fine. The problem is qos over the network. The 2175 llgt will farble and cause xmit to drop out. However, something I have not tried but might be worth your investigation is to use two Telex IP223s. They can be configured for CONSOLE mode. From the manual:

Console Mode – Allows the use of existing tone-based consoles to the VoIP network. The IP-223 decodes standard tones,
converts it into Ethernet traffic for another IP-223 and optional parallel IP consoles.

I normally use Telex dispatch products to connect to an IP223 across the network with the box next to the radio connected in LOCAL mode. I have also used it in TONE mode for radios that have no local interface. I haven't tried CONSOLE mode, but from what I read you would use two IP223s to create two transport paths through the customer network. Device 1 would connect to the tone remote(s), interpret the tone control, send that off to Device 2 at the far end, which would turn it back into tone control again. How robust it is I can't say. I definitely know NXU to NXU links can't deal with network problems well enough to carry tone control reliably. Voice is good. Control is bad except if you switch to E&M. Then it's 100%. OTOH, I know IP223s work very well on the same networks giving me reliable tone and local control without a burp. I just haven't tried them in this configuration.

[Freeflier]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for your advice. I was also unaware of this mode of operation of the IP-223.

Do you think that MDC1200 can make it in this configuration?

[Bill_G]

The IP223 has MDC encode / decode built in. How well it will work in CONSOLE mode is hard to say without trying. If it works like the other signalling systems it supports, the IP223 decodes the inbound data and sends that information to the Telex console. It will pass the signalling down the line because it is within the audio band. Whether it will pass it faithfully enough for an external device to decode properly I don't know. You may want to purchase a pair and do some experimentation.

[d119]

I would investigate the JPS NUX-2A for this application.

[Bill_G]

No! Not just no, but H*LL no. (big smile)

They are a great product. Do everything they are supposed to do, but! They will generate lots of frustration for all the reasons I listed above. We love the NXU and have used them on a lot of projects. We don't do tone control through them. Nuh uh. Ain't gonna happen.

Now, if he feels like converting to hardware control, they would be an excellent choice. Cost effective and a very low learning curve. Simple. Easy. Last long time.

[Batwings21]

We have used the nxu-2's. We have used Telex ip-223's.

Here's what we have found. If you use e&m keying, or cor and ptt local control whatever you want to call it the nxu's are great.
If you have a network for nothing but the nxu's, not sharing with data or video or something they are fine. They will not work for tac rx's with status tone, period. They will eventually hickup.

The ip-223's regenerate the keying tones if you set them up that way, and it works good but they were a bit harder to set up. But we have only used them a few times.

Anything that used ip as a carrier method cannot send 100% of packet in time, in order 100% of the time. However, going to cor and ptt signals will eliminate that issue.

[The Pager Geek]

RAD IPMux-1E

Four 4Wire circuits + 1 ethernet over IP. It will pass tone (including llgt) just fine.

We love em

tpg

[Bill_G]

That's actually an excellent idea to try. I've used that product line through cable broadband to give satellite offices phone and lan connectivity to their main office. Installed fxo cards in their ksu to give the offices extensions the call center could transfer to. Also used RADs to extend T1 service across the street through Canopy links. I didn't think about running tone control through them. I wonder how that pencils out compared to the Telex? Good idea.

We've also tried MultiTech voip gateways for a wide area multi-site UHF LTR with mixed results. But, that was years ago when the products were just coming out, and we were not quite up to speed on the technology. They may be a solution as well if the goal is to replace telco 2w circuits. I recall they were a little spendy, but I'll bet prices have dropped since then.

[Freeflier]

Thank you for all the advice.

About the IPmux-1E, is something I have in mind. What I have considered is to use a DXC multiplexer with hot-line interfaces to emulate direct, 600-ihm 2 wire telco connection. This PCM multiplexer gathers all the 64 Kbps connections over a single E1, and then I would use a TDM over IP bridge. We should use 2 boxes at each end, but every PCM multiplexer gathers several hot-line interfaces.

Doing so, we can emulate a 2 wire circuit over IP... it should be a looseless bridge with no consideration about what is sent through the circuit.

IP-223 from Vega seems to be a very good option, too... I spend some time reading its manual and I was able to confirm tone control, console mode (use two boxes at each end to simulate an IP bridge) and the rich MDC1200 encoding and decoding.

I have two Multitech MVP-210 VoIP gateway with 2 FXS/FXO and 2 E&M interfaces... How can I connect them to tone control devices? Is it possible to set up a permanent 2 wire link bettween them (I mean, no nned to dial up)??? I come from the IP and 'traditional' VoIP and TDM world... but no experience with tone control

[The Pager Geek]

About the IPmux-1E, is something I have in mind. What I have considered is to use a DXC multiplexer with hot-line interfaces to emulate direct, 600-ihm 2 wire telco connection. This PCM multiplexer gathers all the 64 Kbps connections over a single E1, and then I would use a TDM over IP bridge. We should use 2 boxes at each end, but every PCM multiplexer gathers several hot-line interfaces.

With the IPmux-1E... you don't need any multiplexer. It's literally 4 wire with E&M on one end to the exact same port (and settings) on the other. All the multiplexing is done within the IPmux. It's really easy to set-up and get flying.

Tx Audio to IPMux-1E to Canopy to IPMux-1E to Radio

RX audio reverse it.

[Jim202]

Have you looked at the Sytech Corp. gateway they call the RIOS? It is an IP based gateway that will
do just what your looking to do. You can use "client" computers as the operating position. These computers
can be any computer you want. Just provide the IP connection network and away you go. They will work
from just about anyplace you can get a network connection.

The state of Virginia is using this gateway system to inter connect some 58 different 911 dispatch centers
at this time. It allows them to share and inter connect any radio channels that are connected. This allows
them to connect simplex channels, repeater channels, Motorola trunked channels and EDACS trunked channels.

Take a look at their web site at www.sytechcorp.com and see if you get interested. Their web site could
stand some polishing, but at least you will get the idea. They also are working on interconnecting a PDA
into their gateway to be allowed to control the radio channels as well as be able to look at video.

Jim

Hi,

I am facing the following 'challenge' and guess that somebody could help me.

Currently there are 14 MTR2000 base stations that are controlled using MC200/MC250 Deskset tone controllers over 2 wire, local connections (with local I mean that there are no telco direct lines). Some of them work with more than one MTR2000, but most of them only work with a single MTR2000. MDC1200 is currently being used on all the fleets.

Now we need to move the command center (where the Desksets are installed) to a single location, thus forcing the desksets to operate kilometers away from the MTR2000 base stations.

We where encouraged to enable an IP transport solution over a WiMAX network for the deskset+MTR2000 tandem, using gateways at both ends of the link to emulate a 2-wire over an ethernet/IP network.

I have found some gateways but they seem to be used for dispatch environments where only one gateway is installed at the radio site, and there is a PC-based dispatch console at the other side. Such type of solution is not what we need at this time, because for operational purposes, existing deskests should be kept.

I tired to find a related solution on the board with little results. My main concern is related to the tone signalling transport over IP, with the ability to still support MDC1200.

Any help or comments? Thank you!

[d119]

About the IPmux-1E, is something I have in mind. What I have considered is to use a DXC multiplexer with hot-line interfaces to emulate direct, 600-ihm 2 wire telco connection. This PCM multiplexer gathers all the 64 Kbps connections over a single E1, and then I would use a TDM over IP bridge. We should use 2 boxes at each end, but every PCM multiplexer gathers several hot-line interfaces.

With the IPmux-1E... you don't need any multiplexer. It's literally 4 wire with E&M on one end to the exact same port (and settings) on the other. All the multiplexing is done within the IPmux. It's really easy to set-up and get flying.

Tx Audio to IPMux-1E to Canopy to IPMux-1E to Radio

RX audio reverse it.

I second TPG's statements. We've built entire networks around the IPMUX-1E and have had no issues with them. It's a solid product with little configuration required to get them up and running. And it really is as simple as what you put in on one end is what you get out on the other, and vice versa.

[Freeflier]

With the IPmux-1E... you don't need any multiplexer. It's literally 4 wire with E&M on one end to the exact same port (and settings) on the other. All the multiplexing is done within the IPmux. It's really easy to set-up and get flying.

Tx Audio to IPMux-1E to Canopy to IPMux-1E to Radio

RX audio reverse it.

Sorry for this question, but as I said I am not experienced with tone remotes: how do you connect a tone console or adapter (which uses a 2-wire connection) to a 4 wire E&M connection???

A tutorial or something related will be highly appreciated!

[quint 18]

RAD IPMux-1E

Four 4Wire circuits + 1 ethernet over IP. It will pass tone (including llgt) just fine.

We love em

tpg

I must agree they work great

[d119]

With the IPmux-1E... you don't need any multiplexer. It's literally 4 wire with E&M on one end to the exact same port (and settings) on the other. All the multiplexing is done within the IPmux. It's really easy to set-up and get flying.

Tx Audio to IPMux-1E to Canopy to IPMux-1E to Radio

RX audio reverse it.

Sorry for this question, but as I said I am not experienced with tone remotes: how do you connect a tone console or adapter (which uses a 2-wire connection) to a 4 wire E&M connection???

A tutorial or something related will be highly appreciated!

The IPMux devices can be programmed for 2-wire operation or 4-wire operation.