Users may not create topics, posts, or private messages containing or relating to the following material (especially pertaining to Motorola copyrighted software, unless you want Motorola to come along and shut this site down):

  • Listing for sale or trade of, or links to sites offering for sale or trade of, or giving away, Radio
    Service Software (RSS) or Customer Programming Software (CPS)
  • Profanity, pornography, defamation, or slanderous remarks directed towards any individual or entity
  • Commercial advertising (except in the Batboard Vendors forum, as approved by the Admin/Mod Staff)
  • Any other items which may be deemed as offensive

If any topics, posts, or private messages containing or relating to the aforementioned material are brought to the attention of the Admin/Mod Staff, they will be deleted.

Additional FAQ items appear here in Forum Rules. Please review them for posting guidelines and further clarification.

remote radio via cisco routers..

This forum is for discussions regarding System Infrastructure and Related Equipment. This includes but is not limited to repeaters, base stations, consoles, voters, Voice over IP, system design and implementation, and other related topics.

Moderator: Queue Moderator

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:54 pm

I play cisco all day, but haven't done the radio piece. I have a 2 - 2611xm with nm-hd-2ve and a vic2-2e/m card. From what I see, I should be able to link these two with the SP ios.
Has somebody done this? pointers?

thanks.

User avatar
Bill_G
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:00 am

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby Bill_G » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:19 am

I've done it with Juniper, JPS, and Telex equipment. I haven't used Cisco equipment to do it, but following up the model numbers you provided, it looks possible. Will you stay in house on the protected side of your network, or venture out through the wild interwebs to a remote site?

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:29 am

I have 2621XM's, as well as all the boards you are speaking with. It was going to be a rainy day project. You don't need fancy firmware, but the router must support CME/Voice. I'd be very interested in what you come up with and the configuration.

I'd love to play but right now I don't really have a lot of time.

I will warn you that I hear the Cisco boards will cause some remotes to transmit if/when the devices reboot. I would do some reading on that so your aware ahead of time.

-Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sat May 15, 2010 7:35 pm

ok... I tried some different configs using the M lead on the e&m port, but just didn't care for the resulting output on the other side. I have a config
now that I am using multicast and tone control to the MSF5000. It seems pretty steady across an internet connection. I need to dig up another tone remote
and test adding a 3rd location to the mix of things.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sun May 16, 2010 10:43 am

maxjam wrote:ok... I tried some different configs using the M lead on the e&m port, but just didn't care for the resulting output on the other side. I have a config
now that I am using multicast and tone control to the MSF5000. It seems pretty steady across an internet connection. I need to dig up another tone remote
and test adding a 3rd location to the mix of things.


Are you willing to post the configuration files you used to accomplish this? I'd like to read through... leave out the passwords and IP details though!

-Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sun May 16, 2010 1:18 pm

Here are the relevant parts..

This is a 2-wire tone control full duplex setup. You just need to replicate this on 2 different routers with different /30 ip subnets on the Vif1 interfaces and then
the same network on the FastEthernet0/0 interface. You will either need to manually route the Vif1 ip blocks between the two routers or make sure that the
routing protocol you run on both routers is advertising it. They need to be seen by the other side.

This uses multicast so you will need this to be on a network that will let you pass it, such as a private wan/lan on campus, etc.



--------------------------

ip cef
!
!
!
!
ip multicast-routing
ip auth-proxy max-nodata-conns 3
ip admission max-nodata-conns 3
!
!
!
voice-card 1
!
!
!
!
!
!
voice class permanent 1
signal timing oos timeout disabled
signal keepalive disabled
signal sequence oos no-action
!
!
!
!
!



interface Vif1
ip address (/30 ip block here)
ip pim sparse-dense-mode

interface FastEthernet0/0
(Your lan ip address here)
ip pim sparse-dense-mode

!
!
voice-port 1/0/0
voice-class permanent 1
type 3
signal lmr
lmr e-lead voice
no echo-cancel enable
no comfort-noise
timeouts call-disconnect 3
timing hookflash-in 0
timing ignore m-lead 500
connection trunk 500001
!
voice-port 1/0/1
voice-class permanent 1
type 3
signal lmr
lmr e-lead voice
lmr duplex half
no echo-cancel enable
no comfort-noise
timeouts call-disconnect 3
timing hookflash-in 0
timing ignore m-lead 500
connection trunk 500001
!
!
!
!
!
dial-peer voice 239500001 voip
destination-pattern 500001
session protocol multicast
session target ipv4:239.50.00.01:20000
codec g711ulaw
ip qos dscp 5 media
vad aggressive
!
!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

update - Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:55 pm

I have done some more work on this and it has been running pretty well for a year. After tinkering with several methods, here is a config that is running. I now have 3 end points on this network including 1 out of state that is working very well.

================================================================

no network-clock-participate slot 1
no network-clock-participate wic 0
ip cef
!
!
!
!
no ip domain lookup
ip multicast-routing
ip auth-proxy max-nodata-conns 3
ip admission max-nodata-conns 3
!
!

!
!
!
voice class permanent 1
signal timing oos timeout disabled
signal keepalive 65535
signal sequence oos no-action
!
voice class permanent 2
signal timing oos timeout disabled
signal keepalive 65535
signal sequence oos no-action

!

!
interface Tunnel100
ip address 192.168.10.1 255.255.255.252 <-- make sure you have 192.168.10.2 on the other router so the tunnel will work
ip pim sparse-dense-mode
no ip mroute-cache
load-interval 30
tunnel source FastEthernet0/0
tunnel destination OTHER-END-IP - tunnel has to know where to go.
tunnel sequence-datagrams
tunnel checksum
tunnel path-mtu-discovery
!


!
interface Vif1
ip address 172.29.0.1 255.255.255.252 <-- on the other router use 172.29.0.5 255.255.255.252 so you have seperate Vif1 interfaces on the network
ip pim sparse-dense-mode
!
interface FastEthernet0/0
ip address ip.ip.ip.ip mask.mask.mask.mask <-- This is your public IP on each side. At least one side should be a static ip. The other side can be dhcp.
ip virtual-reassembly You will just need to update the tunnel if it changes.
no ip mroute-cache
load-interval 30
speed 100
full-duplex
!


ip pim bidir-enable

!
!
!
voice-port 1/0/0
auto-cut-through
voice-class permanent 1
type 3
signal lmr
lmr e-lead voice
no comfort-noise
timeouts call-disconnect 3
timing ignore m-lead 500
connection trunk 500001
!

!
!
!
!
!

!
dial-peer voice 239500001 voip
destination-pattern 500001
session protocol multicast
session target ipv4:239.50.00.01:20000
codec g711ulaw
ip qos dscp 5 media
vad aggressive


========================================================================

It is best to run a routing protocol over the tunnel - rip works just fine for my application
Due to the delay with different networks I gave up using one multicast for all end points... the echo just couldn't be cancelled out for decent operation.
So each end point gets it's own dial-peer and multicast back to the central hub and then I just combined the 2 E&M connections to a 66 block and then to the base radio.
Just set the tone remote levels with a service monitor and it has worked like a champ when the bits fly properly.
t
I am using this on an amateur base but if you are going to do this for public safety... please make sure you control the network from end to end and setup qos to give this priority.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:08 pm

THANK YOU!

Over thanksgiving with another friend of mine we benched this pretty much exact setup between two routers. I'm very well convinced if we had a dark network it would work perfectly. Had not gotten to the point of building in the end-end VPN tunnel - which your config will help me out with big time.

Glad to hear this is working well. I think I would agree that Multicast isn't the way to go unless you own the pipe or have a very low latency connection.

You have any idea on bandwidth usage/requirements per port?

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:57 pm

As the VAD is aggressive, it doesn't generate packets until the tone remote is doing it's thing. I have rrd graphs on all of my traffic points and I honestly can't tell when people are using it or not by looking at them. I have seen it show 57000 bits/second with 3 end points up, but as it is radio traffic it is hard to get a good number when the router interfaces are even set to 30 seconds.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:22 pm

For this to work with your current configuration - what is your wiring diagram for the actual E&M ports. Are you grounding any pins together in order to make the routers connect? We had to do that on each end to make them transmit back and forth...

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:22 am

The only pins that I have hooked up on the E&M cards are 4&5 that connect to the tone remote.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:45 am

Gotcha - so you are just doing two wire audio control then. Our plan is to do full 4 wire over it.

The method we were going to use was having the radio signal the devices when to connect and throwing a timeout in there so avoid using VAD. Are you finding that the VAD is reliable enough that it can be used with good success? Does it cut off any voice?

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:59 am

If you don't use VAD, you will see more traffic generated as it just keeps the line 'OPEN' just like a dry pair would be. I don't/haven't had an issue with using VAD as it was hooked to a half-duplex radio anyway. You could just use VAD on the voice port instead of vad aggressive. When the aggressive keyword is used, the VAD noise threshold is reduced from -78 to -62 dBm.

desperado
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:29 pm
What radios do you own?: Motorola

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby desperado » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:55 pm

OK, I assume, without digging into the Cisco IOS stuff on this, that you could have each of the E&M ports direct to different routers (receiver sites) with out needing a router and cards for each connection.
What I mean is that if I have 4 receiver sites that are microwave linked back to a TX site each receiver site would have it's own router and card set (4 routers for 4 sites) then only have two routers at the TX site, with receivers 1 and 2 in router 1 and receivers 3 and 4 into router 2.

I am figuring that this is correct, but not sure. I have done some crazy stuff with Cisco routers and firewalls, but never really worked with VoIP stuff on them.

And I guess while I am bring this up, what about E&M off a Cisco VoIP system to interface to a console of Off Hook detect?
By that I mean, if a user had a Cisco IP phone system and a MCC5500 console (which requires off hook detect) is there a way that a 2611 and E&M card could be hooked to the system and when one of the phones was off hook, it could switch the E or M lead for off hook detect?

I realize this may be a money thing, and I am not asking how to do it, only if it can be be done. I am working with Avaya right now trying to get them to provide hook detect for a customer. This is a big deal for folks selling Motorola (or any other ) radio console system that has headsets because they all need this for them to work right.

PM me if you want
Keith
CET USMSS
Field Tech
What more can I say

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:26 pm

desperado wrote:OK, I assume, without digging into the Cisco IOS stuff on this, that you could have each of the E&M ports direct to different routers (receiver sites) with out needing a router and cards for each connection.
What I mean is that if I have 4 receiver sites that are microwave linked back to a TX site each receiver site would have it's own router and card set (4 routers for 4 sites) then only have two routers at the TX site, with receivers 1 and 2 in router 1 and receivers 3 and 4 into router 2.


If you are using 2611XM/2621XM (note you must have "XM" routers that support voice, the right firmware, and right memory to support the right firmware.) If you are doing VPN you may want to invest in an AIM-VPN card to allow for some of the VPN encryption offloading from the processor. That all aside...

You need a DSP board (NM-2V I think). You then need E&M Cards. Each E&M card (VIC) will have 2 E&M ports. So every 2611/2621XM can support a total of 4 E&M circuits. The cards are slotted to sit in a carrier which contains a dedicated DSP.

This document explains how you can configure the circuits: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_ ... lmrip.html

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

desperado
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:29 pm
What radios do you own?: Motorola

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby desperado » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:37 pm

I see what you mean about the VPN... I would probably not need to run VPN, but if I was chances are that I would run a firewall with VPN in from of the router for the site to site connections. Probably a PIX 515 or similar..... they are getting cheaper.. and I have a bunch of experience with them.

I am actually looking at running this over a canopy setup though, if I can find the range extender dishes. Otherwise, it would be Cisco 1242 AP's in bridging mode on 5.8 hopefully, it's somewhat quieter up there in this area.

On a side note, a buddy of mine is running a quantar in digital only mode near me. I just picked up a AstroTac receiver and was trying to figure out how to ship V.24 over to him and run a remote receive site here. Would that run over the Cisco gear in the config discussed here?
Keith
CET USMSS
Field Tech
What more can I say

Will
Posts: 6823
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby Will » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:28 pm

We have installed a few of these http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=634

And these http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=1051

They work very well and interface to most radios easily.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:15 pm

I have found that asking the router to do other things besides voice and some simple routing will cause voice issues. Even doing a "write mem" will cause voice to get jittery or even drop. I also have a Quantar running p25 that I would like to figure out how to shove around the network. The config I posted is good only for audio across the E&M cards, however Cisco has a plethra of expansion cards out there so something might be workable.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:01 pm

maxjam wrote:I have found that asking the router to do other things besides voice and some simple routing will cause voice issues. Even doing a "write mem" will cause voice to get jittery or even drop. I also have a Quantar running p25 that I would like to figure out how to shove around the network. The config I posted is good only for audio across the E&M cards, however Cisco has a plethra of expansion cards out there so something might be workable.


I am not sure what is required for the v.24 circuits -- but I would think you could use astro modems and 4 wire audio circuits the E&M cards provide. You can use the wires on each end to single for the link to come up with there is tx/rx audio.

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

desperado
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:29 pm
What radios do you own?: Motorola

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby desperado » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:28 pm

Hey Alex, can we get a sticky on this?
Keith
CET USMSS
Field Tech
What more can I say

User avatar
Bill_G
Posts: 3055
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:00 am

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby Bill_G » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:07 am

AFAIK the v.24 interface on Astro equipment is simply a built in 9600 baud modem. In my experience, ethernet network latency clobbers the timing and the two ends fall out of sync often. The wireless link has to support true T1 quality to pass v.24 reliably. None of the consumer grade equipment I've tried does.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:31 pm

desperado wrote:Hey Alex, can we get a sticky on this?


Sure Keith.
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

crgauth
New User
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:47 am

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby crgauth » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:17 am

If you are looking to put the Cisco rotuers between the radio and the DIU, it can be done easily with a Cisco. All you need is a serial port on the router that supports sync comms (like a WIC-1T or 2T).
Then you can utilize STUN to make a virtual cable that connects the two devices together. I have worked with people that have done it.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:53 pm

So I finally spent the time putting all the parts together, getting the banjo's and other items lined up to do some testing. Took about two - three weeks to get the configurations right, add the vpn, and then do the testing in a lab setting. I shipped one end a couple of states away to another friend with a static IP setup. It took a couple of days to get the wiring right on both ends, but since then (knock on wood) the link has not gone down.

** IF YOU DO BUILD THIS ** there is 48v DC on at least one of the E&M cards pin's. Watch your wiring!

I didn't end up using the config's in this example. I didn't need any of the LMR features. I ended up just wanting a 4-wire circuit between A+B. I followed a guide to build a PLAR (Private Line Automatic Ringdown) setup using the E&M cards that I had. That worked well enough and used VAD for the audio detection.

Here are the voice-port settings I used for the PLAR connection:

voice-port 1/0/0
auto-cut-through
voice-class permanent 1
operation 4-wire
type 2
signal immediate
no echo-cancel enable
no comfort-noise
connection plar [number here]

Equipment used:

Cisco 2621XM 48/256 w/1x NM-2V and 2x VIC-2E/M cards. You can probably spend ~$250 and get all the parts off ebay. The trick is getting the right iOS with the right features to make it all work.

This is going through a VPN, and we do have AIM-VPN boards in both routers. One of my Cisco buddies told me that the routers do not have enough CPU power to handle both the voice conversion plus the VPN.

So far we only have one circuit up but plan on turning all 4 on to see how the system works.

Ping time between routers is 28ms through the VPN.

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby d119 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:02 am

I'd be interested in setting this up, as I'm preparing to purchase and deploy a Ubiquiti 900MHz PTP link between two sites.

I would like to have 4 E&M ports between the two sites, and the microwave is dedicated to the transport of these. 8 ports would be even better, but I can settle for 4.

What hardware would one recommend I purchase for this, and how do I make sure I have the correct IOS? Are there any Cisco-savvy folks that could write the configs I need for the two boxes?

Lastly, whats the latency like on a dedicated network? Could it backhaul voted audio without screwing up the voter?

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby d119 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:04 pm

(redacted - didn't end up using VG200's for this)

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby d119 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:40 am

Just an update on what I'm doing. I have purchased two Cisco 2811's, and equipped them with NM-HD-2V network modules, and VIC2-2E/M voice interface cards. This is the route I've decided to go.

Outlay was ~$215 each for the routers, ~$29 each for the NM-HD-2V modules, and ~$24 each for the VIC2-2E/M modules, so about $300 per router to equip them with 4 E&M ports each.

I'm considering adding an FXS/FXO card to the routers so I can transport a telephone line to the far end, and allow the autopatch on the repeater controller to use a phone line on the master site's PBX. Now that's trick - Voting & tone remote via the E&M, and autopatch via FXS, all in one router.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone in the know, but can I not add additional VIC's to the HWIC slots on my 2811's, to a certain point (6 ports total I believe) before needing PVDM2's on the router motherboard?

Now I get to start learning how to program these things.

For those unfamiliar, it works like this:

Channel Bank = days of T1 circuits
Router = days of IP links.

No wonder Cisco refers to these things as "Integrated Services Routers", and no wonder they cost a fortune, even used... They are pretty powerful pieces of equipment! Darn near limitless options - CDMA cards, DOCSIS cards, voice cards, WAN cards, modem cards, switch cards... Pretty incredible stuff!

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:57 pm

Nice!

You can use the E&M ports as regular POTS ports I believe. I don't know there is a limit where they can only be FXS or FXO, but I'm pretty sure E&M can do what you need it to.

From what I understand (and would LOVE to hear I am wrong) is that if the NM-HD-2V module only has 2 HWIC slots - you can only use those HWIC slots for the E&M cards. You can not put an E&M card in a network HWIC slot. I think this has to do with power and some of the other things the NM-HD-2V does.

** PLEASE KEEP IN MIND ** the E&M modules on pin 1 has 48V DC on it. You can easily fry something. Please pay close attention!

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

cleb
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 6:22 pm
What radios do you own?: CDM1250 MCS2000 HT1K Quantar

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby cleb » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:00 pm

I'll be interested in seeing how this works out. I was thinking of doing something similar with a console (MC2500) to a Quantar over IP. Have fun with the Cisco Voice stuff. I picked up most of the Cisco command line stuff pretty quick, but the voice stuff gets painful quickly.

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby d119 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:19 pm

alex wrote:Nice!

You can use the E&M ports as regular POTS ports I believe. I don't know there is a limit where they can only be FXS or FXO, but I'm pretty sure E&M can do what you need it to.

From what I understand (and would LOVE to hear I am wrong) is that if the NM-HD-2V module only has 2 HWIC slots - you can only use those HWIC slots for the E&M cards. You can not put an E&M card in a network HWIC slot. I think this has to do with power and some of the other things the NM-HD-2V does.

** PLEASE KEEP IN MIND ** the E&M modules on pin 1 has 48V DC on it. You can easily fry something. Please pay close attention!

Alex


Roger that on the Pin 1. I'm planning on wiring all tone remote cables with only the audio pins in the RJ45 so that it's a non-issue. I had seen your notice about that previously, and I appreciate it.

As far as I can figure out from my reading, on the 2811 routers I'm using, there are enough DSP's on the NM-HD-2V to handle a couple more cards in the router's HWIC slots. I don't know if this holds true for the 2600 series, but I opted to go with something a little newer hoping it'd offer better performance due to having a bit more horsepower.

We'll see what happens. I'm going to start writing my config files now.

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby d119 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:58 pm

OK! Success! Spent part of the afternoon on the telephone with Alex, and he got my routers set up.

Most impressive! The latency on a crossover cable is nearly nothing. Voice comes out of the far end nearly as you speak it!

I'll be interesting to see how it performs over the microwave - that's the next step.

One thing I'd like to know from the Cisco gurus:

These are configured as PLAR connections from router-to-router. If one router reboots, you have to remove the E&M cable shorting pins 1&2 (that makes the call connect), then reinsert it to re-establish connection. Any way to remedy having to do this?

chpalmer
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 9:01 pm
What radios do you own?: Astro Specta, MT1500, HT1550LS

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby chpalmer » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:06 pm

d119 wrote:Lastly, whats the latency like on a dedicated network? Could it backhaul voted audio without screwing up the voter?


Ive been told that these or any voip transport will not work well for voted audio transport. Id love to know your outcome!
Winegard Interference

Updated to working link! Still hearing these all over the place.

User avatar
d119
Posts: 3436
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby d119 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:43 pm

chpalmer wrote:
d119 wrote:Lastly, whats the latency like on a dedicated network? Could it backhaul voted audio without screwing up the voter?


Ive been told that these or any voip transport will not work well for voted audio transport. Id love to know your outcome!


Well we're doing it with RAD IPMux and MegaPlex stuff, and it works fine. The key is private microwave. The latency is more or less fixed.

We'll see how the Cisco stuff plays out.

User avatar
boteman
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:20 pm
What radios do you own?: AudioMate 360

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby boteman » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:56 am

d119 wrote:These are configured as PLAR connections from router-to-router. If one router reboots, you have to remove the E&M cable shorting pins 1&2 (that makes the call connect), then reinsert it to re-establish connection. Any way to remedy having to do this?


Boy, I wish I had seen this sooner, but duty called.

Try:

connection TIED dial-peer-nummer-here (corrected from trunk to tied)

For the full explanation:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_2/voice/configuration/guide/vvftrunk.html

I've slammed E&M and voice cards into Cisco 2801 routers all day long into built-in slots 0 and 1, no network module. Certain slots have limitations on what cards they support, so you do have to observe those restrictions. For G.711 mu-law codec you should have no problems bogging down the router. I've run 8 FXS ports all lit up with only one DSP module serving them in a 2811 and it doesn't even blink. It's the more aggressive codecs like G.729 that chew up CPU cycles.

Autopatch:
That same link above discusses FXS ports on one end nailed to FXO ports on the other. Now, if it were me I'd set up FreeSWITCH to serve all your telephony needs in the digital domain, but if you really need an analog phone line for autopatch an FXS card would provide you dial tone and process your call. Create a voip dial-peer that catches any dialed digit (I assume) and sends it to the router (session target) at the other end that is connected to the phone line going to the pbx or PSTN. If you want the FXS port to receive calls from the PBX create a POTS dial-peer with the desired extension nummer and pointing to the desired voice-port (like 0/0/1).

It can be infuriating while you're searching, but Cisco's web site has a plethora of technical documents describing all this stuff in excruciating detail sometimes. Other times they lead you down a short garden path and leave you there holding your...

Also, avoid version 15 and later of Cisco IOS as they have taken to serializing it to the specific box in front of you, the bastids. Versions 12.3 and 12.4 have been around long enough that they are well-vetted and any quirks have been discovered and posted about all around the Net. Google is your friend there, as well.

Hope this helps, if not too late.

doug1
New User
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:41 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby doug1 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:48 am

Cisco routers can be configured to do many things with LMR, they have a great "tool box" of knobs and settings to do about anything LMR over IP. From point to point to point to multipoint pinned up connections to SIP conferencing etc. Let me know if you need some help configuring these. I have some experience doing this.

Doug Hall

carlos
New User
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:09 am

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby carlos » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:51 am

doug1 wrote:Cisco routers can be configured to do many things with LMR, they have a great "tool box" of knobs and settings to do about anything LMR over IP. From point to point to point to multipoint pinned up connections to SIP conferencing etc. Let me know if you need some help configuring these. I have some experience doing this.

Doug Hall


We are going to replace an old legacy network with an IP/VPN connection. The current system consists of 8 radios located at one site and a radio switch located at another site. All equipment are using 4-wires. The radios auto-detects speech (VOX/VAD) so no PTT is needed.

We plan to buy two Cisco 2811 with PVDM2-16 and four VIC2-2E/M /unit.

Any configuration examples are appreciated. The remote site is unattended so the connection need to be reestablished automatically after power or network failure.

Carlos

User avatar
wavetar
Administrator
Posts: 7317
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby wavetar » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:15 am

So, potential stupid question time. In looking at the pinout for the E&M connectors, it appears if I were to run 4-wire tone control to an MTR3000 over a couple of 2811's, am I correct in assuming I would use pins 3&6 on the E&M card for the TX on the tone remote side, which would transpose to pins 4&5 at the MTR E&M card? And vice versa, RX audio out of the MTR would go into pins 3&6, outputting on 4&5 to the tone remote?
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

Welcome to the /\/\achine.

User avatar
boteman
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:20 pm
What radios do you own?: AudioMate 360

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby boteman » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:50 am

That's right. Tx out of your tone remote connects to Rx on the Cisco E&M port, which ends up coming out of the Tx pins on the Cisco at the other end, which in turn goes into the Rx of the radio.

Think of it in the same way that a mobile talks on the input frequency while the repeater talks on the output frequency. Same thing only different.

Whatever you do, I would test it on the bench with both Cisco endpoints sitting in front of you. This allows you to discover and tweak to get it just right.

User avatar
wavetar
Administrator
Posts: 7317
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby wavetar » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:53 am

boteman wrote:Whatever you do, I would test it on the bench with both Cisco endpoints sitting in front of you. This allows you to discover and tweak to get it just right.


Thanks for the confirmation, and yes, I plan to do exactly that!
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

Welcome to the /\/\achine.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:51 pm

Just wanted to drop a note back in for others that are following the thread. A cisco 2811 with a PVDM2 is pretty cheap and easy to find. You don't need a NM-HD-2VE for it. Stay away from the 2801 routers unless you are going to do 4 wire plar circuit and don't need other lmr features.

I now have 5 remote 2811/2611xm all with 2 wire tone remote feeding back to a astro spectra consolette.. We all have intercom and all of the remotes are synced to the channel changes.. it has been a lot of fun! I ended up putting more work into getting and setting up the tone remotes then the rest of the config but once the levels were happy it was all good.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:46 pm

maxjam wrote:4 wire plar circuit


Connection Trunk is not valid on a 2801? I've always used 2811's for this, but I would expect that 2801 would support connection trunks. I originally used PLAR but quickly discovered that you needed to jumper extra wires for this and if the IP transport drops it does not always re-establish without a physical pull/plug of the cable.

Use WIC2T's for v.24.

If you have the cash lying around to buy the cards & cables you can actually have one of these routers terminate 64 v.24 connections and your bandwidth supports it.

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:04 pm

Maybe it was that trunk was available but the other lmr features were not. I will have to get one back online with a e&m card to verify. But I remember that when mixed in with the other 2611/2811 configs it didn't play well. 2811s are so easy to get a hold of so I didn't pay it much more attention.

PLAR works nice when linking up repeater controllers or you have a old local remote that you want to use.

User avatar
boteman
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:20 pm
What radios do you own?: AudioMate 360

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby boteman » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:08 pm

It's not the hardware, it's the software running on it that determines the capabilities of the unit under test. Cisco has a compatibility script on their web site if you can find it that asks what model hardware and what version firmware you have, then tells you what it can and can't do.

PLAR = Private Line Automatic Ringdown, or good old fashioned private line. Dropping the call means the call dropped, it won't re-establish the call until you tell it to. For a nailed-up link you probably need the TIED keyword as I state above about a year ago.

connection plar tells it to call the predefined number when the associated port goes off-hook and triggers that particular dial peer with the plar command in it. It's a cascade, it's not just one single entity.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:21 pm

Found the doc showing the features were not there on the 2801. http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/lmr/design/guide/lmrsrnd_1/lmrsvcm.html
I had 4 wire plar going with it so I would have to go back and see what was missing as far as the trunk and 2 wire stuff that I am using. I did have the adventerprisek9 ios installed.

The most fun in all of this is picking up the hardware like tone remotes for cheap when they tell you it is junk and can't be used anymore due to narrowbanding and having to go digital! I just nod my head and throw it in the truck as fast as I can and get out of there.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:25 pm

Interesting re: the 2801's. I have done the same and pretty much skipped them and used 2621XM's or 2811's.

How are you doing your multi-party linking? Conferencing or just using Multicast?

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:33 pm

I just use multicast.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:14 pm

maxjam wrote:I just use multicast.


Ah ha! I just swapped a dial peer over to this... and that was easy!

I am using GRE tunnels with my sites and the only downside I have found thus far is that if they are behind NAT they will go through the master node as opposed to the peer to peer they are supposed to. It is great that it works behind nat, but, you have to plan for it.

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

maxjam
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby maxjam » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:41 pm

You can come up with a lot of mix-n-match stuff with putting a e&m port into a multicast group. The last I was testing was a remote gm300 with a tone adapter on it in group 1 that was also connected to another gm300 in group 1 with a tone adapter. Put a voice-class tone signal on the e&m port and that way when ever the other gm300 receives it will transmit out the other gm300 on what ever channel you have for the voice-class tone signal. Ideal if you have it setup as a link radio or each end is on a simplex channel but opens some possibilities for linking. Hang time and or ping-pong is an issue if with sides are going to repeater with hang time.

To add the voice-class tonesignal you need to have a 2811 with adventerprisek9.

I have all of my sites going to/from/through a master and I have never had an issue receiving or keying or keeping the other site's tone remotes synced.

User avatar
alex
Administrator
Posts: 5695
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby alex » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:35 am

maxjam wrote:You can come up with a lot of mix-n-match stuff with putting a e&m port into a multicast group. The last I was testing was a remote gm300 with a tone adapter on it in group 1 that was also connected to another gm300 in group 1 with a tone adapter. Put a voice-class tone signal on the e&m port and that way when ever the other gm300 receives it will transmit out the other gm300 on what ever channel you have for the voice-class tone signal. Ideal if you have it setup as a link radio or each end is on a simplex channel but opens some possibilities for linking. Hang time and or ping-pong is an issue if with sides are going to repeater with hang time.

To add the voice-class tonesignal you need to have a 2811 with adventerprisek9.

I have all of my sites going to/from/through a master and I have never had an issue receiving or keying or keeping the other site's tone remotes synced.


Can you give a config example of that? I also have seen a write up where you can make them smart about detecting certain tones and having the routers generate them on either end as opposed to constantly encoding the tone and sending it across the data stream (e.g. status tone for voting).

I'm still learning tricks and such... Each time I bump in to the cisco LMR people i try and get them to be helpful with how some of the demo setups they have work, but, they are always reluctant to actually show how it works. I know you can make a 79xx series phone be a console as well - they can generate keying tones etc, but, despite asking a few times they have said no to sharing the configuration. They went as far to say you do not need IPICS to do it.

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

User avatar
boteman
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:20 pm
What radios do you own?: AudioMate 360

Re: remote radio via cisco routers..

Postby boteman » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:03 pm

alex wrote:I'm still learning tricks and such... Each time I bump in to the cisco LMR people i try and get them to be helpful with how some of the demo setups they have work, but, they are always reluctant to actually show how it works. I know you can make a 79xx series phone be a console as well - they can generate keying tones etc, but, despite asking a few times they have said no to sharing the configuration. They went as far to say you do not need IPICS to do it.

Alex


I doubt that Cisco is a serious player in this. They dabbled in LMR a number of years ago, then s-canned IPICS, then brought it back, but this technology and its applications don't seem to be in their wheelhouse. I'm not sure how much of a future there is in such products what with new radios produced with network connections built right in; the market for gateways like this and the AudioMate must be dwindling so I don't see companies fighting tooth and nail to produce stuff for this market.

As for the phones, if it's like it was when I last investigated them you load a special firmware on the phone that allows it to be used as a console, but it's got to be in one mode or the other: either it's a telephony device or its a console, but not both at the same time. That struck me as incredibly useless. Maybe the newer iterations solved that glaring problem?


Return to “Base Stations, Repeaters, General Infrastructure”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests