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That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

This forum is for discussions regarding all aspects of Motorola radio programming, including hardware, computers, installation and use of RSS/CPS, firmware upgrades, and troubleshooting. There are subforums for discussions of codeplugs, and also for software/firmware release notes and issues.

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wavetar
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That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby wavetar » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:09 pm

There have been an increasing number of threads regarding the fact that many RSS packages such as Saber, Spectra, Maxtrac, etc are no longer available through Motorola. The following is a sample:

viewtopic.php?t=67936

viewtopic.php?t=67507

viewtopic.php?t=67901

There are others if you search. Existing threads will be kept open, and this announcement will remain open for any further discussion. Any new threads are going to be locked & directed to this one, to try & keep it all in one place.

Todd
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.

Welcome to the /\/\achine.

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Bruce1807
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Postby Bruce1807 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:29 pm

how about making an RSS/CPS page in the knowedge base that shows part number, latest version and notes such as no longer available?

ems-280
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby ems-280 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:41 am

so how are we supposed to legally obtain RSS software that is "no longer supported" by /\/\ ??

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FireCpt809
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby FireCpt809 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:17 am

They want you to buy new radios instead of keeping good older radios up and running. Many of the radios that M is not supporting are not narrowband compliant.

ems-280
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby ems-280 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:21 pm

but some of the good ones
like the jedi series radios, which, in my opinion, are "bulletproof!"

unfortunately many departments and places can not afford to purchase new radios, so they are forced to keep old working radios in service... and in many cases the old radios are better than the new ones... more durable for sure!

bellersley
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby bellersley » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:50 am

I had spoken to a rep. up here at Motorola Canada about exactly this. A group I was affiliated with had a bunch of UHF HT600s and wanted to purchase the RSS. They were told it was NLA. The rep I spoke to told me that because the radios are so old, nobody is going to come knocking on our door if we were to obtain it from a non-Motorola source.

That said, I imagine they would be a lot more picky about software that could be used to get onto a Trunking system - and who could blame them?

radioservice
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby radioservice » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:04 pm

I have a question concerning this topic.

I was cleaning out some old file drawers and found a ton of the original RSS user guides and some even had the original diskettes with them....get this: even 5 1/4 inch floppies. wow...museum pieces.

I believe the manuals can be sold without breaking the license agreement. But, now that the RSS is no longer available, shouldn't there be a statute of limitations on this license agreement....like government files are available to the public after so many years.

Does Moto have a similar statue? Who at Moto could answer such a question?

awaiting your reply

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MTS2000des
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby MTS2000des » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:55 pm

this has been discussed before, copyrights are usually renewable and just because a piece of software is no longer supported doesn't mean the EULA is automatically invalidated. Case in point, Microsoft no longer sells Windows 95 but it is still intellectual property and they still have exclusive rights reserved including the right of reproduction, sale or transfer of license. Their incentive to retain these rights is even more so when the IP is tied to hardware, such as a radio.

Motorola EOL'ed RSS for a reason: to hasten the "death" and devalue the older radios. They are in business to make a profit and the bottom line is keeping the old HT600's and Maxtracs running means new radios that aren't being sold in their place. Is is safe to say they aren't as interested as they were in enforcing IP rights for their older RSS packages now that the hardware is getting close to 20 years old and soon to be phased out? Maybe...but it is for sure they aren't going to help you find a source for it nor assist you in keeping the old hardware running. Price any replacement parts for older NLA products lately? Even Jedi parts (which the line just ended within the last 2 years) have skyrocketed. Same with Astro Saber and XTS3000- the writing is on the wall- the product life cycles are shortened these days on everything.

They want you to buy current production hardware and software.
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Andre
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby Andre » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:35 pm

I have been looking and looking and I cannot find a part number, or maybe it doesn't even exist. Looking for Astro Spectra CPS. Not Astro 25 Mobile, Not Astro Spectra Plus.

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escomm
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby escomm » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:00 pm

Astro Spectra CPS Part Number RVN4183, current revision is V and shows as orderable on MOL (for me)

phillipsc84
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby phillipsc84 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:24 pm

So the question is this, for anyone whos not a big agency like the MANY Amature Radio, small business, personal use people get the software they need? I fall into that catagory as I have a friend who is an Officer with a local PD. He has an old SP50 that he asked me to program for him for some local stuff and as was expected RSS cant be foudn anywhere. There is a file called sp50.zip out there but this doesnt work. SO how would someone like me whos not going to get him to purchase a brand new radio and CPS go about getting a copy?

jantman
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby jantman » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:11 pm

Just to post a more explicit warning here:

/\/\'s license terms are quite restrictive. I don't think you're even allowed to disclose a copy of the license - but I do remember a number of the major provisions (one went so far as to forbid anyone who's not a direct employee from using the software).

As a warning to anyone who thinks "it's EOL'ed, so I can copy/trade/sell/buy it":
1) Motorola doesn't *license* software in the normal sense of the word. The closest word that I can think of is "rent". You license it for a given amount of time, and when that time is up, it's supposed to be destroyed.

2) I've never seen any other software that can program Motorola's radios. And, since the same CPS programs many radios, I'd assume the programming procedure (at the computer level) is relatively similar for most model lines. All this means that the RSS/CPS is definitely considered a Trade Secret, and is covered by some pretty stiff laws as long as /\/\'s current radios even have one line of code that's the same as the RSS/CPS in question.

In short... until Armageddon, /\/\ will be able to sue over their software.

Yes, this is a planned upgrade path. Yes, it's planned obsolescence of their older radios in order to force an upgrade. And if you want the software, you do the same thing the rest of us do - either open an account and buy it, or bring it to a local dealer.

(Another warning to those who want to download RSS for free and use it - at best, you'll probably get a version that's too old to program your radio. At worst, you'll end up with a virus-ridden computer and a bricked radio.)
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FireCpt809
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby FireCpt809 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:11 pm

We all know the sad truth. If you want it its out there. Its bought, sold, traded, bartered and pilfered. That is why we see so many questions here and on RadioReference.com about " i tried to program my radio and it doesnt work now" or " I loaded this CPS/RSS on my computer and it dont work" you think joe blow who bought a radio, cable and rib on Ebay got a MOL account and bought it legally? No he searched the internet, and dowloaded it or joined a message board( not this one) asked for it and somehow got it. Now they bricked the radio. Came here and wanted somone to tell them how to wave the magic wand and make it work.

I've witnessed a dealer hand over a burned CD copy of the current CPS to a customer. Its not just happening on a hobby level.

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mancow
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby mancow » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:39 pm

I've never in my life seen a company scare the piss out of so many people with an EULA. I suggest we put Motorola in charge of the National drug control policy. I'm sure we could do away with the DEA inside of a year.

I'm not condoning piracy or any of that but really, I mean it's kind of amazing. But kudos to them for knowing how to cover their own interests I suppose.

RADIOMAN2002
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby RADIOMAN2002 » Mon May 10, 2010 4:31 am

But the don't always win! Thank goodness. I am not for pirated software but Motorola's thinking is more in tune with a government's attitude. Just out spend them on lawyers until the opponent is out of existence.

jry
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby jry » Mon May 28, 2012 2:51 pm

believe this would fall under a civil action in which case they have to show damages. For software or other IP that is no longer offered for sale that may be a challenge. You can sue for anything ...collecting much is another story.

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Tom in D.C.
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby Tom in D.C. » Mon May 28, 2012 3:14 pm

To add to all the confusion, someone just recently posted on RR that since so many RSS versions now cover discontinued radios that all you have to do to get copies is to ask Motorola for them.

I just shook my head in wonderment that people can be so out of touch with reality.
Tom in D.C.
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MSS-Dave
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby MSS-Dave » Tue May 29, 2012 4:26 am

Tom in D.C. wrote:To add to all the confusion, someone just recently posted on RR that since so many RSS versions now cover discontinued radios that all you have to do to get copies is to ask Motorola for them.

I just shook my head in wonderment that people can be so out of touch with reality.


Well, you did say it was posted on Radio Reference......... :lol:

Dave

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Tom in D.C.
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby Tom in D.C. » Tue May 29, 2012 6:49 am

Dave,

Point taken, but it still baffles me how much misinformation gets spread around by people who you'd think would know better.

Regards,
Tom in D.C.
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alex
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby alex » Tue May 29, 2012 9:49 am

Not defending the RR guys, but it would not come as a shock if they were to just send you the software if you called and asked. You really never know who is going to answer the phone and do what over there. That's their decision as a company though and may certainly not be policy.

Alex
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Spiffy50
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby Spiffy50 » Tue May 29, 2012 6:24 pm

While I cannot speak for Motorola, I have obtained a copy of "RSS" for Kenwood radios that are no longer supported by doing exactly that. Calling them up and explaining what I need and why.

cmelville42
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby cmelville42 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:38 am

Well, I can speak from direct experience. I am a Motorola software licensee and needed RSS for narrow band upgrades on half a dozen MT2000's. As it is NLA, I called and spoke to the kind folks at MOL, eventually ending up at the software product planner. While some of them wanted to just "send me a disk", they couldn't do that. So unless you have more pull, you won't find it through that channel.

That said, I'm still stuck. Sigh.

vhacmowilmob
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Re: That's right, many RSS packages are NLA...

Postby vhacmowilmob » Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:14 pm

We were discussing this yesterday while rekeying our APX radios (the keyloader is in the safe with our original RSS disks, licenses, books, etc.) M should make the RSS packages for older, non-narrowband radios available to someone like the ARRL so us hams could legally obtain it. Speaking for myself, I have several Sabers, Maxtracs, Radius, and even a REALLY old spectra railroad that I use on 2M and 440 all the bloody time. (I had to have the Spectra programmed by someone else, as I don't have that RSS) We have licensed copies of Maxtrac, Saber, Jedi, MTSX, and SM50/120 RSS, and they won't be pried out of my cold, dead hands. (better than $1000 worth of software in the mid to late 90's)


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