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Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Have a question or information regarding interfacing or interoperating Motorola digital radios with models from other manufacturers? Here's the place to do so.

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kv5e
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What radios do you own?: Remco ASTRO wrist radios

Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby kv5e » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:38 am

http://forums.radioreference.com/amateur-radio-equipment/238995-yaesu-ft1d-c4fm-digital.html

Dual Band non time-slotting DMR radio offering from YAESU.....sure to be pimped at Dayton.

Should be TRBO compatible for non-TDMA communications but then again I am guessing.

Craig

JRayfield
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Re: Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby JRayfield » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:54 pm

DMR is 'time-slotted'. It is TDMA. That is the DMR standard. So if a radio isn't TDMA and it isn't 'time-slotted', then it isn't DMR and is not compatible with MOTOTRBO (other than in analog mode).

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
Rayfield Communications
Springfield, MO
www.rayfield.net

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kv5e
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Re: Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby kv5e » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:54 am

We will see......they list it as FDMA so it may not be standard to ETSI 102 but still interoperate in single slot mode.

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MSS-Dave
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Re: Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby MSS-Dave » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:55 am

We will see......they list it as FDMA so it may not be standard to ETSI 102 but still interoperate in single slot mode.


FDMA + TDMA = NOT compatible. There is no 'Slot" in FDMA. The only thing that will talk to a MotoTRBO brand radio in the unencrypted digital mode is another ETSI DMR compliant radio such as Hytera. Interoperating is only going to happen in the "old school" analog mode.

The Yaesu digital radios have been discussed for a few months here on the board.

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kv5e
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Re: Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby kv5e » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:16 am

That is exactly right, they are NOT compatible. Kind of puzzling unless they are doing their own repeaters that will interconnect into DMARC or something.

Jim1348
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Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby Jim1348 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:03 am

When digital modulation started being discussed for amateur radio, I feared that various modes would come out that would be incompatible with one another. Unfortunately, that is exactly what seems to be happening. I have used both P25 and MOTO TRBO, but I have no experience with D-Star. It will be interesting to see if one emerges or if they will all continue for some time to come. I have been intentionally waiting for a while before I buy an gear that will work on digital modulation. Personally, I could make an argument for P25 based on Quantar repeaters being able to handle both analog and P25. I could make an argument for MOTO TRBO because of the dual time slots. I am not sure what advantages D-Star has over P25 or MOTO TRBO. Can anybody here advise me on that?

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kv5e
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Re: Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby kv5e » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:45 am

I am sure that some folks might debate the opinions but here's my take:

Plus

1. Spectrally efficient and works well in 10 kHz channels with a little separation with adjacent 10 kHz channels is fine with 12.5 kHz
2. Good MOS on voice with well implemented infrastructure
3. Voice and data interleaved on the channel with a simpler control plane than P25/DMR - 2400 bps with 1200 error correction on DV , about 900 bps with no error correction on the interleaved data frames - FEC is open and left to the user
4. Native routing in Icom implementaion uses call signs in a source routing scheme , think of the call signs as "routing addresses"
a. Originating call sign is MY call which is set in the endpoint radios in the native scheme
b. Destination call sign is the desired station called UR call - CQCQCQ is anyone , or a specific user or Repeater Port in native format
c. Repeater 1 call sign enables routing on the RF PHY layer locally at the repeater. This tells the controller to repeat the transmission
d. Repeater 2 call sign enables routing through the gateway to other repeaters or users
There is a management table that stores the My call from the last known transmission and that provides forwarding of transmissions for that user when their call sign is placed in the UR Call field and transmitted to a gateway enabled repeater
5. Designed for amateur radio and not a commercial product and the call sign system is a plus for linking as that is the way hams think
6. Third party middleware and hardware developed that links repeaters, access points, computers via IP linking into a unified network with simpler linking paradigms than the Icom Native routing scheme. DPlus, DExtra, DV Dongle, Hot Spots, DVAP - ham designed and added onto the Icom framework
7. Widest acceptance and largest network worldwide of DV for amateur radio
8. High speed ethernet bridge DD system on 1.2 GHz (expensive) for TCP/IP communications capability

Minus

1. Icom repeaters are mediocre quality and only "bent pipe" design with no FEC at the repeater and poor or non existant diagnostics available
2. Native Icom routing is idiosyncratic and does not unify users together into a single network without users' active intervention in programming the routing
3. Icom repeaters are digital only (although some folks think that is an advantage)
4. User end point radios have improved but they still have a learning curve to leverage all the features by the users
5. FEC on DV is not quite as robust as DMR or P25, but still good quality, all digital voice system have challenges when the signals are more rayleigh than rician in their characteristics , but the additional interleaving in DMR and P25 provide slightly more robust error correction.
6. No data only mode for the VHF/UHF systems that fully leverages the bandwidth for data transfer
7. There are additional DStar designs provided for in the spec that Icom has not shown any interest in bringing to market
8. Single source supply for finished end point radios - Not invented here attitude by competitors - Icom patent for their Gateway design

I am sure there will be other additions. I have enjoyed it and learned a lot about the hobby and hobbyists as well as lots of fun.

Craig

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escomm
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Re: Yaesu FT1D (OT)

Postby escomm » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:16 pm

Has Icom started building repeaters that don't desense themselves yet?


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