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Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than One...

Have a question or information regarding interfacing or interoperating Motorola digital radios with models from other manufacturers? Here's the place to do so.

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Jim1348
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Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than One...

Postby Jim1348 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:58 am

I am limited by the subject line. Anyway, I am wondering if there is currently any Motorola radios capable of more than one digital standard in a single radio? I assume not, and although I may have asked this in the past, things do change from time to time? For example, it would be quite handy to have a radio that could have some analog, some P25, and some MOTO TRBO in the line up. Anyway, if not Motorola, does any other competitor currently offer that? Perhaps a Harris or Thales?

A quick glance at the Harris Unity XG-100P http://pspc.harris.com/Products/Portabl ... table.aspx shows analog and P25. Similarly, the Harris Liberty lists analog and P25. http://www.thalescomminc.com/content/libertylmr.aspx At this point, I would almost think that someone might be making a radio capable of P25 and MOTO TRBO, but if there isn't, I guesss it means that there is little demand for one.

tvsjr
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby tvsjr » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:13 pm

It's more about protecting markets than about what's actually possible. For instance, the XPR7550 and the APX share some serious commonality from a CPU and DSP perspective. However, the vendors don't want lower-cost DMR/TRMO cutting into those phat P25 profits.

Bigfella237
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby Bigfella237 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:59 pm

+1 for what tvsjr said, it's not even a cost factor because both P25 Phase II and DMR use the same AMBE vocoder (which I understand costs a fortune to license off DVSI), everything else is just coding the software. In fact there is very little difference between Motorola's P25 X2 and MotoTRBO protocols at all (both AMBE, both 9600bps), I suspect that one was based on the other, but don't quote me on that!

Anyway, my point is it's definitely not a technical issue that's stopping you from buying 'one radio to rule them all'.

BTW, "MotoTRBO" is a Motorola proprietary name so you will never find a Harris radio that does MotoTRBO, the name of the standard is "DMR".

Andrew

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alex
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby alex » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:45 am

Until someone demonstrates a business need to add Mototrbo to APX (aka someone says we will give you a couple million in business, but, the hold back is Trbo in APX) they will probably not be adding it.

I keep hearing rumors of discussion only to go to some official event and be told "no, we are not adding it to APX" by a product manager.

Keep in mind Mototrbo/Astro Subscribers are two distinct business units within Motorola. They probably (knowing large corporate culture) don't talk much with each other nor do they cross populate product lines. While there are similarities in what they do they have their own separate missions which usually will not jump group borders.

Internal politics is always a win for the consumers.

Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

tvsjr
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby tvsjr » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:18 pm

alex wrote:Until someone demonstrates a business need to add Mototrbo to APX (aka someone says we will give you a couple million in business, but, the hold back is Trbo in APX) they will probably not be adding it.


Witness the APX vehicular adapter. It's not out yet, but there are sufficient confirmations to believe that it will exist soon. All of this on the back of Mother saying "there will NOT be a VA for APX". Some agency offered them enough money (or threatened to give their money to Harris or others) and poof, APX VA.

Jim202
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby Jim202 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:31 pm

Bigfella237 wrote:+1 for what tvsjr said, it's not even a cost factor because both P25 Phase II and DMR use the same AMBE vocoder (which I understand costs a fortune to license off DVSI), everything else is just coding the software. In fact there is very little difference between Motorola's P25 X2 and MotoTRBO protocols at all (both AMBE, both 9600bps), I suspect that one was based on the other, but don't quote me on that!

Anyway, my point is it's definitely not a technical issue that's stopping you from buying 'one radio to rule them all'.

BTW, "MotoTRBO" is a Motorola proprietary name so you will never find a Harris radio that does MotoTRBO, the name of the standard is "DMR".

Andrew



I had a good discussion with DVSI several years ago on just this topic andthe main discussion was the cost of royalties of their product. Was told it was in the order of like $20 to $50 per unit, depending on quantity. I don't call that excessive. But by the time mother M gets through putting their spin on it, it's out of site.

Think mother M goes overboard on this is to scare people into believing the justification of the high cost of their radios. Make the phone call yourself and get the straight story from the horses on what it costs.

Jim

Bigfella237
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby Bigfella237 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:25 pm

Jim202 wrote: ~ Was told it was in the order of like $20 to $50 per unit, depending on quantity. I don't call that excessive. But by the time mother M gets through putting their spin on it, it's out of site. ~

Jim

$20 to $50 multiplied by how many units?

Motorola must have sold what, tens of thousands of APX radios alone by now? Or would hundreds of thousands of radios be closer to the truth?

Let's split the difference and say: thirty five bucks times fifty thousand radios equals one and three quarter MILLION dollars ($1,750,000); and that's not even counting whether that "per radio" cost includes all platforms that have ever used IMBE & AMBE vocoders.

If you don't call that excessive then I have some stuff here I'd like to sell you... :lol:

Andrew

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Wowbagger
Aeroflex
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Re: Is There Currently Any Motorolas Capable Of More Than On

Postby Wowbagger » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:37 am

In fairness, if they are doing APCO-25 phase 2 or their own APCO-25 X2 protocol, they already have the AMBE vocoder in the radio. However, the licenses for IBME and AMBE are different for P25 than for other formats, as DVSI was forced to agree to a fixed licensing cost for P25 vs. the other protocols. Part of adding a non-P25 protocol to the radios would be renegotiating the license terms for the vocode, as it would then be used for a non-P25 usage.
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.

I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.

I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.


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