Users may not create topics, posts, or private messages containing or relating to the following material (especially pertaining to Motorola copyrighted software, unless you want Motorola to come along and shut this site down):

  • Listing for sale or trade of, or links to sites offering for sale or trade of, or giving away, Radio
    Service Software (RSS) or Customer Programming Software (CPS)
  • Profanity, pornography, defamation, or slanderous remarks directed towards any individual or entity
  • Commercial advertising (except in the Batboard Vendors forum, as approved by the Admin/Mod Staff)
  • Any other items which may be deemed as offensive

If any topics, posts, or private messages containing or relating to the aforementioned material are brought to the attention of the Admin/Mod Staff, they will be deleted.

Additional FAQ items appear here in Forum Rules. Please review them for posting guidelines and further clarification.

Compatability on new system

Have a question or information regarding interfacing or interoperating Motorola digital radios with models from other manufacturers? Here's the place to do so.

Moderator: Queue Moderator

TheAnka
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:08 pm

Compatability on new system

Postby TheAnka » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:53 pm

We're in the process of changing to an Astro P25 conventional system with XTL and XTS series radios. (again a conventional system with the digital P25 mode) I'm a little unclear on compatability with non motorola or non motorola Astro series hardware.

Is it going to be possible to purchase and utilize conventional digital P25 hardware from Icom, Kenwood, or otherwise since this is a P25 system, or does the Astro have another gotcha that keeps us stuck to Motorola?

User avatar
escomm
Queue Moderator
Posts: 5131
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:24 pm

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby escomm » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:24 pm

Short answer: "It depends."

User avatar
Bill_G
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:00 am

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby Bill_G » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:03 pm

I like the short answer. Theoretically P25 is P25. Two radios from different manufacturers should talk to each other. They may even work well through a third party repeater. However, any advanced features like trunking, and private call will be lost.

MattSR
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:00 pm

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby MattSR » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:41 pm

Trunking and Private call are all defined in the standard. So they are compatible with each other. What you are saying is correct - there are manufacturer specific features that wont work (Soft ID comes to mind)

All the core features that are defined in the standard (Voice, DES/AES encryption,) will work and are cross compatible however.

If in doubt, speak to your vendor :)

Jim202
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby Jim202 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:17 am

This year has been a good year for the end user on radios. The vendors have stepped up to the
plate and pushed their radio equipment to be more P25 adherent. I say that with some reservation
as Motorola keeps trying to introduce some sort of proprietary glitch to keep others off their systems.
If the end user agency was smart (which many are not) they will stop jumping for the out of norm
P25 features (as one vendor keeps pushing) and stay with the standard.

Yes the P25 standard is a living item and a moving target. But it is getting better and as the
federal government has found, the cost of user radios is lower by not buying from Motorola.
They have started to purchase from EF Johnson, Kenwood, Midland and others.

I expect to see these new players to the true P25 world to refine their products with firmware
and software upgrades. In playing with some of these new radios, they are starting to impress
me with the way they function. When an issue is found, the vendors are now starting to listen
and come up with changes to improve on the function of the radios based on the feedback.

Let us hope this trend keeps up and the radio vendors keep an open ear to the end users.

Jim

akardam
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:53 am

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby akardam » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:27 am

You can read up on specs and listen to manufacturer's sales pitches and promises all day long, but in the end the only way you're going to know if any manufacturer's subscriber will work on your digital system, conventional or otherwise, is to test an actual radio. Get ahold of the various manufactuers that you're interested in and have them send you some demos. Most if not all of them will be happy to do so (for a limited testing period, of course). That way you get actual hands on experience with the subscribers and can definitively say that X, Y and Z will work, P and Q will not, etc.

User avatar
Bill_G
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:00 am

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby Bill_G » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:05 am

Thanks for the clarification Matt. I knew you would know the answer. I'll have a better feel for this in a year as we put in the first Tait 700M system surrounded by four counties with Moto 800 systems. Compatibility is a big concern.

MattSR
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:00 pm

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby MattSR » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:22 am

No worries Bill. Basically the TIA won't let the manufacturers put the P25 logo on a radio or call it P25 compatible if it hasn't passed the TIA.102 conformance tests and actually adheres to the spec and its' mandatory features.

As akardam has said, best way to find out is through hands on testing on your own system!

radioinstl
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:07 pm
What radios do you own?: Liberty MBITR APX7000 75000

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby radioinstl » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:23 pm

MattSR wrote:No worries Bill. Basically the TIA won't let the manufacturers put the P25 logo on a radio or call it P25 compatible if it hasn't passed the TIA.102 conformance tests and actually adheres to the spec and its' mandatory features.

As akardam has said, best way to find out is through hands on testing on your own system!


100 % untrue, the TIA has nothing to do with the P25 logo or any control over it nor testing.

Any member of PTIG (http://www.project25.org/) may use the logo. There is no current restriction with in PTIG on the use.

Testing rules were adpoted by DHS and NIST and the testing is actually done by the manufacture and then the manufacture issues the SDoc.

User avatar
Astro Spectra
Posts: 611
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby Astro Spectra » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:43 pm

There is a perfectly good Project 25 Compliance Assessment Program which actually mandates the manufacturers doing compatibility testing, see:

http://www.safecomprogram.gov/SAFECOM/c ... ject25cap/

Motorola embraces this:

http://mediacenter.motorola.com/content ... wsAreaId=2

Here's a comment from Tait:

http://www.taitworld.com/main/index.cfm ... 76,48,html

Oh yes, I have visions of all the happy smiley EF Johnson, Harris, Icom, Kenwood, Motorola and Thales faces having a great time at these events!
Actually the engineers do have a good time it’s probably just all the marketing types that look like they’ve trodden in something. I hear the December event at Tait’s Houston facility was a real blast.

This isn’t some theoretical powwow of a conference with just PowerPoint presos but real live I'll show you mine if you show me your’s sort of stuff with real radios and real infrastructure.

Batwings21
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:21 am

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby Batwings21 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:01 am

The Motorola Astro vs P25 bashing is getting old. The M equipment fully meets the p25 specs. Just because they choose to offer features above and beyond the spec is not to block other brands from using a system. Its simply to increase the value of their product, other manufacturers are free to do the same... most just do the bare minimum.

User avatar
Astro Spectra
Posts: 611
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Compatability on new system

Postby Astro Spectra » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:41 am

Agree. There are now plenty of examples of mixed networks.

All the gear just works unless you have some wacky non-standardized requirement. If you are really paranoid just make proper functioning with your existing infrastructure or subscriber equipment part of the purchase contract for the new gear.


Return to “Motorola Digital Radio Compatability”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests