Compatability on new system

Have a question or information regarding interfacing or interoperating Motorola digital radios with models from other manufacturers? Here's the place to do so.

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TheAnka
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Compatability on new system

Post by TheAnka »

We're in the process of changing to an Astro P25 conventional system with XTL and XTS series radios. (again a conventional system with the digital P25 mode) I'm a little unclear on compatability with non motorola or non motorola Astro series hardware.

Is it going to be possible to purchase and utilize conventional digital P25 hardware from Icom, Kenwood, or otherwise since this is a P25 system, or does the Astro have another gotcha that keeps us stuck to Motorola?
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escomm
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by escomm »

Short answer: "It depends."
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Bill_G
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by Bill_G »

I like the short answer. Theoretically P25 is P25. Two radios from different manufacturers should talk to each other. They may even work well through a third party repeater. However, any advanced features like trunking, and private call will be lost.
MattSR
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by MattSR »

Trunking and Private call are all defined in the standard. So they are compatible with each other. What you are saying is correct - there are manufacturer specific features that wont work (Soft ID comes to mind)

All the core features that are defined in the standard (Voice, DES/AES encryption,) will work and are cross compatible however.

If in doubt, speak to your vendor :)
Jim202
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by Jim202 »

This year has been a good year for the end user on radios. The vendors have stepped up to the
plate and pushed their radio equipment to be more P25 adherent. I say that with some reservation
as Motorola keeps trying to introduce some sort of proprietary glitch to keep others off their systems.
If the end user agency was smart (which many are not) they will stop jumping for the out of norm
P25 features (as one vendor keeps pushing) and stay with the standard.

Yes the P25 standard is a living item and a moving target. But it is getting better and as the
federal government has found, the cost of user radios is lower by not buying from Motorola.
They have started to purchase from EF Johnson, Kenwood, Midland and others.

I expect to see these new players to the true P25 world to refine their products with firmware
and software upgrades. In playing with some of these new radios, they are starting to impress
me with the way they function. When an issue is found, the vendors are now starting to listen
and come up with changes to improve on the function of the radios based on the feedback.

Let us hope this trend keeps up and the radio vendors keep an open ear to the end users.

Jim
akardam
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by akardam »

You can read up on specs and listen to manufacturer's sales pitches and promises all day long, but in the end the only way you're going to know if any manufacturer's subscriber will work on your digital system, conventional or otherwise, is to test an actual radio. Get ahold of the various manufactuers that you're interested in and have them send you some demos. Most if not all of them will be happy to do so (for a limited testing period, of course). That way you get actual hands on experience with the subscribers and can definitively say that X, Y and Z will work, P and Q will not, etc.
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Bill_G
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by Bill_G »

Thanks for the clarification Matt. I knew you would know the answer. I'll have a better feel for this in a year as we put in the first Tait 700M system surrounded by four counties with Moto 800 systems. Compatibility is a big concern.
MattSR
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by MattSR »

No worries Bill. Basically the TIA won't let the manufacturers put the P25 logo on a radio or call it P25 compatible if it hasn't passed the TIA.102 conformance tests and actually adheres to the spec and its' mandatory features.

As akardam has said, best way to find out is through hands on testing on your own system!
radioinstl
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:07 pm
What radios do you own?: Liberty MBITR APX7000 75000

Re: Compatability on new system

Post by radioinstl »

MattSR wrote:No worries Bill. Basically the TIA won't let the manufacturers put the P25 logo on a radio or call it P25 compatible if it hasn't passed the TIA.102 conformance tests and actually adheres to the spec and its' mandatory features.

As akardam has said, best way to find out is through hands on testing on your own system!
100 % untrue, the TIA has nothing to do with the P25 logo or any control over it nor testing.

Any member of PTIG (http://www.project25.org/) may use the logo. There is no current restriction with in PTIG on the use.

Testing rules were adpoted by DHS and NIST and the testing is actually done by the manufacture and then the manufacture issues the SDoc.
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Astro Spectra
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by Astro Spectra »

There is a perfectly good Project 25 Compliance Assessment Program which actually mandates the manufacturers doing compatibility testing, see:

http://www.safecomprogram.gov/SAFECOM/c ... ject25cap/

Motorola embraces this:

http://mediacenter.motorola.com/content ... wsAreaId=2

Here's a comment from Tait:

http://www.taitworld.com/main/index.cfm ... 76,48,html

Oh yes, I have visions of all the happy smiley EF Johnson, Harris, Icom, Kenwood, Motorola and Thales faces having a great time at these events!
Actually the engineers do have a good time it’s probably just all the marketing types that look like they’ve trodden in something. I hear the December event at Tait’s Houston facility was a real blast.

This isn’t some theoretical powwow of a conference with just PowerPoint presos but real live I'll show you mine if you show me your’s sort of stuff with real radios and real infrastructure.
Batwings21
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by Batwings21 »

The Motorola Astro vs P25 bashing is getting old. The M equipment fully meets the p25 specs. Just because they choose to offer features above and beyond the spec is not to block other brands from using a system. Its simply to increase the value of their product, other manufacturers are free to do the same... most just do the bare minimum.
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Astro Spectra
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Re: Compatability on new system

Post by Astro Spectra »

Agree. There are now plenty of examples of mixed networks.

All the gear just works unless you have some wacky non-standardized requirement. If you are really paranoid just make proper functioning with your existing infrastructure or subscriber equipment part of the purchase contract for the new gear.
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