Confused about encryption?

fireradio · Post by **fireradio** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:06 pm

Hi all, I'm just trying to learn how encryption works with the newer Astro series... the main Batlabs site didn't seem to be much help. I know that I would need a DX series KVL to load keys into an Astro.. so, can Astro radios with DES communicate with older Sabers that use DES? What exactly is DES-OFB.. is that just the term for encryption while in IMBE mode? In that case, do they make secure modules for the Astro series that do both DES-XL and DES-OFB? And what is "Software Multikey Encryption?" I'm sorry, I bet these are pretty dumb questions, but I just want to get my facts down.

Thanks,

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:46 am

Ok.. I'll take a stab at it...

Yes, you will need a DX version keyloader for the Astro series radios. Or the KVL3000 (the "Binford" of keyloaders)

Yes, Astro DES (plain) will talk to Saber DES (plain) as long as the astro is in analog mode and the keys match.

DES-OFB is DES for Digital Operations (to make a long story short.)

Yes, Motorola makes combination boards for Astro products w/ various combinations, depending on what type of encryption you want and what radio to put it in.

No, they are not bad questions, you have to learn somehow!

Hope that helps, good luck!

pg

fireradio · Post by **fireradio** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:09 am

Awesome, thanks a lot guys! Now I actually know what I'm doing! One more question re: Astro radios using encryption: Would my XTS or Astro Saber need a flash option to use encryption, or can I just pop the module in there and go at it? Thanks again!

Caffiene · Post by **Caffiene** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 11:28 am

Isn't DES-OFB Output FeedBack.
As compared to DES-CFB or CipherFeedBack.
If I'm not mistaken, this the difference between DES and DES-XL.
I could be wrong, though.
-Caff

Post by **wavetar** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 10:56 am

Caffiene wrote:Isn't DES-OFB Output FeedBack.
As compared to DES-CFB or CipherFeedBack.
If I'm not mistaken, this the difference between DES and DES-XL.
I could be wrong, though.
-Caff

Both DES & DES-XL were a CipherFeedBack variant. The XL version just had error correction added. And yes, OFB stands for OutputFeedBack.

Todd

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:27 pm

Also interested in encryption for a couple guys that are in rural nowhere. Not an 800 or trunking system to be found. Voice inversion really wows the crowds here... so software encryption would be totally acceptable unless it just ruins the distance and/or audio.
I'm assuming it requires no keyloader device? How exactly does s/w encryption work?
Is it available in older spectras?
thanks,
Woody

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:46 pm

I TOO AM INTERESTED IN SOFTWARE ENCRYPTION...TELL ME MORE!!!!!!

also, has anyone heard of a SECURENET MODULE for just plain DES? batlabs doesnot list one for the astro saber, if no one can answer that, do the saber DES modules physically plug into the astro saber? or is the astro saber secure module totally different package?

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:49 pm

Just a point of clarification:

The saber DES module will not PHYSICALLY fit into an astro saber.

However the Saber DES module can be used to speak with any other radio with a DES module. (As long as the XL is turned off in the case of DES-XL.)

(Just didn't want anyone to misunderstand "not compatble.")

tpg

jacky Lin · Post by **jacky Lin** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:37 am

Hi Sirs, Sorry I would like to ask you question about Saber Securenet model
My radio is without the DES-XL module inside,

however, when I programmed the radio after, she just RX only and cannot TX, therefore, I tried to disable the Secure function in RSS programmed, but she still cannot speak(TX), I don't know something wrong, but I guess the reason is DES-XL module. So I hope some one can teach me how to solve my problem and would appreciated.

Regards,

Jacky Lin

jacky Lin · Post by **jacky Lin** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:58 am

Hi,
Yes, until now she has still cannot (TX) audio to transmission.
Upon you meaning, I need to find the bypass module to replace it.
So do you know the information of bypass module and part no. or do have another method to fixed, for example some " Re-work" to bypass
the PCB schematic. Thanks for your reply.

Jacky Lin

jacky Lin · Post by **jacky Lin** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:18 am

Thanks for your suggestion,

Barry Dehatchit · Post by **Barry Dehatchit** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 6:22 pm

Anybody got a part number for the above board?

Barry Dehatchit · Post by **Barry Dehatchit** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:45 pm

Which post ?

I see a post giving the model numbers for the xts3000 and astro spectra/saber.

I didn't think any of these modules would fit in the xts3500.

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:02 pm

The Pager Geek wrote:Just a point of clarification:
The saber DES module will not PHYSICALLY fit into an astro saber.
However the Saber DES module can be used to speak with any other radio with a DES module. (As long as the XL is turned off in the case of DES-XL.)
(Just didn't want anyone to misunderstand "not compatble.")
tpg

Now I'm confused

DES keys are smaller (bit wise?) than DES-XL, Right?

How does one enter a DES key 16 char. key like: 1234567890abcde
into a des-xl?

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:28 pm

r0f wrote: DES = DES. the -XL, or -OFB, is how the algorithm operates. DES, DES-XL, and DES-OFB all share the same key length.

You require a KVL (Key Variable Loader) compatible with DES, in order to load a DES key, in to a module (which is installed in a secure radio)

Read this: http://www.trunkedradio.net/trunked/stuff/encrypt.html

S

Still not straight on this, On my sabers(vhf) with des I enter 4 sets of 4 char. strings into the loader.
The sabers with des-xl(UHF) I could have sworn I entered and extra string(ie: 5 sets).

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:41 pm

r0f wrote:Nope.

But on newer DX-revision KVL's, you can enter a Logical ID #, which is 4 digits. This is entered after you're done entering the 16-digit DES key.

Shaun

Cool,
Thanks for the info Shaun!

Post by **batdude** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 8:43 pm

Read this: http://www.trunkedradio.net/trunked/stuff/encrypt.html

man, i wrote that like YEARS ago... lol... and it's still on the net....

with my old old old old old long dead email address...

ha ha ha

doug

Confused about encryption?

Confused about encryption?

DES OFB

Re: DES OFB

re: newbie

des-xl/des-ofb for a xts3500

holy cow!