God bless Germany.......digital police radio in germany....

[LAPD_Astro]

I just read that Nokia has been chosen to install the new digital Tetra-Network in germany for police, fire department, customs, and EMC.....
The authorities say that Motorola didn´t meet the expectations in 8 !!! important points and Nokia did in all point.

How can this be? Simple: The report also says that Nokia and its allies have spent VIP-tickets and trips to the decision-makers..

How can something like that happen? Nokia doesn´t even know how to manufature a radio and Motorola makes the best worldwide....... You see, coruptiuon is everywhere......Poor Motorola......poor germany.......

[Tom in D.C.]

In other parts of the world, believe it or not, bribes, tickets,
parties, etc. etc. are NOT illegal. Rather, they are the
accepted way of doing business and if the laws of a country
don't prohibit such behavior then it's not illegal. I don't
know what's permitted in Germany but the fact is that
not every country does things like we do in the US.

All of which doesn't answer your question about how Nokia
could insinuate itself into a deal such as this and beat out
Motorola except for the fact that in some cases /\/\'s own
attitude makes them their own worst enemy.

[Bruce1807]

Nokia makes great subscriber terminals
I'd like to know what the 8 points are but the Motorola and Nokia terminals offer different features.
I guess it is what features the Germens thought more inportant

[jim]

This is hard to say without knowing much about this Nokia system.
There may be technology and features in the Nokia system that we don't know about since the US lives in the world of "M."

Just because it has an "M" on it doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. I know many out here don't want to acknowledge that, but it's true and can be proven at times.

If you listen to our new Motorola P25/800 system, it sounds like crap- and this is when you are getting a strong signal. BTW, this is the system that was put in place by county commissioners and 911 supervisors that TOOK MONEY, VACATIONS, CARS and other perks from Motorola. The corruption does happen here.

The PA Turnpike's Open Sky system sounds spectacular. The Astro P25 system's audio clarity doesn't even come close to the Open Sky's.

[MTS2000des]

I hate to tell you this Larry, but P25 is ancient technology compared to TETRA. And TETRA has true interoperability that this hodgepodge of pieced together systems in the US will never have. For one, the EU does things alot differently: they set standards, NOT THE VENDORS OR CONSORTIUM of VENDORS, and vendors build products that meet the OPEN specification.

Nokia is no stranger to building advanced digital communication networks and subscriber units. They are the world's largest supplier of GSM equipment, (yes, even more so than your beloved Mexirolas), and have had their hands in the network side of things for as just as long. They were one of the first members of the GSM alliance to commit to supplying base stations to the first GSM networks, This was in 1988/1989.

What digital wireless did the US have in 1988? I'll answer that for you: NONE. We had AMPS...woo hoo! wideband, fraud prone brick phones. And the EU had digital with full SMS, CID, and removable SIM cards. Why? Because instead of companies like Motorola who want to sell us the same old ancient technology at tommorow's prices, the governments in the EU weren't afraid to put their foot down and DEMAND a standard.

See the mess of US wireless? We have CDMA 1x/EV-DO, iDEN, GSM, TDMA (IS-136) and AMPS. All are 100 percent INCOMPATIBLE. they're on three different RF bands (800MHz ESMR, 850MHz cellular and PCS1900).
Three different types of backhaul are used. While the rest of the civilized world has UMTS/HSDPA, we are scratching our asses playing "brand wars" and just as in public safety, there is no real end to end interoperability.

and until we have a government that isn't owned by corporations, we never will.

dream on pal.

quit hating on Nokia for offering a better product. They do nothing that your precious Mexirola hasn't done the difference is in most of the EU it isn't illegal like it is within the US.

[Radio Intelligence Agency]

Just for the information I can say that Motorola was chosen to deliver a Tetra system for the danish railroad (government owned part of it) or the urban part of it. The involved parties was Motorola and Niros as far as I know (maybe there were more in the begining) but Motorola simply had the big money to put where the science and development was at the time causing Niros to brake their neck trying to keep up with Motorola. Niros reorganized after a total crash and now operates by selling and repairing their own stuff on a regular basis.
There´s no question that Motorola know how to do their stuff and they do it all around the world not only in the US. There´s a serious reason for Motorola to feel over run by Nokia. To fully understand this you will have to look back in history. Who owns Motorola and who created it? I see this as a result of a modern and "free to pick" Germany. I of course assume that Nokia did their best trying to win but again this could have modern political aspects in it as well. In the old days there was a lot of Storno radioes to be found in Germany. Storno was later swallowed by Motorola. British, german and danish police all used Storno back then and they all use Motorola nowadays. In Sweden they use Ericsson wich is the danish build Niros just with another label on it. I was told that the Swedish government tryed to purchase an astro based Motorola system a few years ago but that deal was stopped (probably by the US government) as Motorola refused to sell such a system. They then picked Ericsson instead wich by the way delivered analog radioes with encryption. Motorola probably get to deliver a Tetra based variant to the danish police. The trouble is the danish police demands their own Tetra system wich of course operates with the rest of the Tetra network but they will not accept to be part of an existing Tetra system (go figure) so Motorola probably makes the real big bucks solving this issue. I don´t think I´m mistaking when saying that Motorola did their part telling the police administation how to pick and on which grounds.

[LAPD_Astro]

A small correction: Only about 10% of the radios used by police in germany are manufactored by Motorola.
I think there are no mobile radios used by government authorities.

Here in germany BOSCH is very popular. Well, a few years ago Motorola bought Bosch but there are tons of Bosch handhelds used by german authorities.

So, when you come over to germany for the WM in 3 weeks you will hardly see a cop using a Motorola radio.

But thanks for telling what it is like in Denmark. I am very often in Denmark and would like to see danish cops with digital Motorola radios......... BTW: Do you live in denmark @ radio Intelligende Agency???

[Radio Intelligence Agency]

Yes, that I do my friend.
It´s possible I mixed up the Motorola stuff in Germany but elsewhere it´s the most common sort of public safety equipment (even in Poland although it´s the GM series I saw) but a lot of german fire departments are using Motorola or Storno. But again how do you define what´s a true Motorola radio here in Europe. To the americans it´s made by Motorola and sold as such but in Europe a lot of compagnies were bought by Motorola like Storno in late eighties. The CQF9000 (base station) was made by Storno or was it really? They made the CQF600 series but the parts for the advanced CQF9000 was made when Motorola sold advanced solutions for use in public safety areas after the take over so how do you know what´s what anymore? The Storno 6000 (mobile) was a true Storno but also the last one. It is very common in Germany or it used to be anyway. I wouldn´t know for sure what the cops use nowadays but some of the old 4m stuff is still around I think. I saw a german cop a few years ago with an old portable with this "night stick" antenna. Swedish police used 4m as well just like danish police used to do until mid nineties (THOR project started in 93´when replaced the first systems) and swedish police now use 70cm as portables. Well back on track. You live in Germany and you do of course know a whole lot more about german radio systems than I do as it seems to have your interest. I was just pointing out certain important issues I thought a lot of parties are overlooking in their endless search trying to explain how, when and why Motorola do or don´t do what we expect them to. I can tell you for sure that Motorola really knew how to talk the pants off the police chiefs back in the early nineties. The system runing nowadays is a total compromise as the bucks really got wings for sure and real fast when Motorola tryed to implant most of the cops demands in the system. The system ended up as some kind of "a technilogical freak" and is truely based on compromises (but it works). Anyway you gotta hand it to Motorola because they deliver and they collect - everytime. Especially collecting things is what they are really good at. Again if you have the brains to figure out why it is so (and you should know my friend) you will also know that the world is a just a table for rich men playing cards. Always remember if you´re walking on eggs - don´t hop. That´s it! And when it comes to Motorola you will get burned in fatal ways if you don´t remember this lesson. I´ve seen it. Only way to over come this rule of living is to push in a different direction politically and that´s what this other board fella pointed out so very well. Thumbs up for you my friend you really hit right on spot.
Maybe the Nokia guys just learned to play a good hand.

[Bruce1807]

Now the problem with the CQF products was way to many screws.
They are used in the Channel tunnel.

The best think with Tetra is for logical channels per physical channel and full duplex interconnect meaning no need to cary a cell and a tetra unit.

For those of you familier with 6.x systems it is virtually the same central controller setup in fact the STR3000 base units in P25 are modified Tetra bases made in Europe.

The US is so behind in technology it's a joke.

[K4RXR]

The best think with Tetra is for logical channels per physical channel and full duplex interconnect meaning no need to cary a cell and a tetra unit.

When the Formula 1 circus comes to North America (Montreal and Indianapolis) , they bring their Tetra system with them. The FIA officials all walk around with their Tetra handhelds which they use like a two-way or a cellphone as the task requires. The system is provided and maintained by Riedel and there's a Riedel tech who travels with series (talk about a sweet gig). I've never looked closely enough at the handhelds to tell who makes them, but the Riedel website shows a Motorola MTH800. The console equipment is Riedel. Through the console, the officials can talk directly to the team managers. The Ferrari and McLaren teams also use Tetra.

[Radio Intelligence Agency]

I actually had the opportunity to try out one of the railroad radioes a week ago. Their Tetra portables are all Motorola which goes for the Metro as well. The engineers still use 900MHz storno6000 (rather old crap nowadays) which is what they communicate with beside that they all have a cell in case it dosn´t work and there has been sooo many problems with the existing system that the cell has become more or less unexpendable. One of the fire departments in Copengagen had Tetra on a test basis some years ago and it was Motorola as well. The Tetra system, soon to be fully implanted with the rail road (government parts of it) is like some one said useable as a normal cell just that it uses Tetra network instead of the public cell network. That means that you always have a strong signal where you need it as Motorola really pushed it far trying to climb on top of the market which the did with an A++. If you hit the emergency botton all lines will listen in as well as the central command. In fact it would be possible to have the cops listen in as well as soon as they get their variant (if they can aggree in all this). All terminals can be used as a cell by the local numbers between all units, desk phones, cells etc in the intire organization. I even noticed they had special features which they used to recall all messages for a certain day or for a certain line in case a stamping device broke down or the information screens went down. This means when they start on their shift they will have all important messages for their line and for the day or if they want other lines and all this done with their Tetra terminal. They also had a menu which they used to run a check on a social security number in the central data bank. They just plug in the intire number or part of it and male/female (which is done by either 0000/0001). If they have the intire number they will get an acknowledgement and the name and adress back in a second. If they just have part of it they will be connected to a dispatcher who makes a manual search on the criterias. I don´t think you will ever experience this kind of features in a Astro saber or Xts radio in the US but this is the future and present around here.