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Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

The place to talk about features you want to see in your radios. In addition speculation is welcome with respect to new features or subscribers being developed. You never know!

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firecomm
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Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby firecomm » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:53 pm

I would personally like to see the ability for TRBO on an APX. My department (we have APX6K's) would have plenty of uses for it, as a lot of the FD's around us are migrating to TRBO and we do tech rescue for a lot of them. I know it would be just as easy to have a few TRBO portables, but why not just make APX's capable with a F/W bump and flash option for TRBO.

Just my 2 cents.

Let the back and forth and the "you wish" comments commence. :lol:

Jim1348
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Feature Request For TRBO On The APX Line

Postby Jim1348 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:57 pm

Well, it certainly has been discussed in the past. I even brought it up to the Motorola representative at a dog and pony show that they put on in Saint Paul MN a number of weeks back. Could it be as simple as a software upgrade, if they ever decided to do it? I suppose the other thing is whether any competitors will do it. I think that Motorola has a market share of APCO P25 users near me. It would definitely be a nice option.

firecomm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby firecomm » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:38 pm

I did the same thing at an Apco trade show last fall. I mentioned it to a few of their reps and the importance of having it in the apx line. He didn't rule it out and said they have heard that from quite a few people and services in the past. It sure as heck would be handy to have!

com501
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby com501 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:42 pm

Kenwood is already doing it. If Moto continues down the split product line like they have for the past 30 years, I don't see Trbo for APX at all.

firecomm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby firecomm » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:29 pm

com501 wrote:Kenwood is already doing it. If Moto continues down the split product line like they have for the past 30 years, I don't see Trbo for APX at all.


So very true.

(it would be handy to have thanks button, so I could say thanks for your comment or like it! lol! ;-) )

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tuckerm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby tuckerm » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:00 am

If the APX line had TRBO in it, I would have no problem buying an APX 8000 and 8500 in a heartbeat.
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d119
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby d119 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:24 pm

Agreed. Since Analog is unquestionably going by the wayside, what happens when we reach the point where most everything commercial is some flavor of DMR, and everything public safety is P25?

Seems to me at that point Motorola will have to integrate the two into their higher tier radios. I don't see how adding TRBO to the APX line affects APX sales at all... Surely they aren't THAT concerned about the TRBO portfolio.

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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby sjxts3000 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:37 pm

d119 wrote:Surely they aren't THAT concerned about the TRBO portfolio.

Sure they are. It's enough to the point where they want to protect their market share in those verticals which favor the low-cost of DMR subscribers compared to the APX line. Think of how many times you've seen Motorola DMR radios in various businesses that have a ton of them in use.... major hotel chains, theme parks, shopping malls, security companies, courier services, etc.....even NASCAR! Imagine if Disneyland strapped an APX subscriber to the belt of every one of their employees...vs the existing XPR subs they use today (and they almost all wear radios with surveillance kits in their ears or RSMs over the shoulder)
From a public safety perspective, the local, state, and federal government sector sees no need (or not enough compelling need) for interop with P25 and DMR on a single subscriber. Certainly not enough for /\/\ to rise to that challenge. /\/\ is no fool...they just like any other greedy company.. if they saw the need for a single P25/DMR interop subscriber, they'd produce it... and price it in orbit well beyond the APX8000/8500...especially if they can do it without a major re-tool of their assembly plants or re-design of their top-tier product line aside from internal IC/RF boards.

I hope one day I'm incorrect about these assertions and that Mother /\/\ comes out with a single all-band subscriber which includes DMR. I'd gladly fork over $$ for it...hell, even two of 'em! But for now, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

com501
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby com501 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:02 pm

It is a simple firmware tweak to add the DMR protocol. Phase II is pretty much the same thing, same chipset, just different sampling rates. The re-tool would be the radio feature set only.

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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby sjxts3000 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:12 pm

com501 wrote:It is a simple firmware tweak to add the DMR protocol. Phase II is pretty much the same thing, same chipset, just different sampling rates. The re-tool would be the radio feature set only.

I guess only time will tell....

firecomm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby firecomm » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:13 pm

d119 wrote:Agreed. Since Analog is unquestionably going by the wayside, what happens when we reach the point where most everything commercial is some flavor of DMR, and everything public safety is P25?

Seems to me at that point Motorola will have to integrate the two into their higher tier radios. I don't see how adding TRBO to the APX line affects APX sales at all... Surely they aren't THAT concerned about the TRBO portfolio.



+1

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escomm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby escomm » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:40 pm

d119 wrote:Agreed. Since Analog is unquestionably going by the wayside, what happens when we reach the point where most everything commercial is some flavor of DMR, and everything public safety is P25?

Seems to me at that point Motorola will have to integrate the two into their higher tier radios. I don't see how adding TRBO to the APX line affects APX sales at all... Surely they aren't THAT concerned about the TRBO portfolio.

It isn't the sales of other subscriber models they're worried about. Put TRBO into an APX and now you don't need a $20,000 repeater

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motorola_otaku
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby motorola_otaku » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:07 pm

escomm wrote:
d119 wrote:Agreed. Since Analog is unquestionably going by the wayside, what happens when we reach the point where most everything commercial is some flavor of DMR, and everything public safety is P25?

Seems to me at that point Motorola will have to integrate the two into their higher tier radios. I don't see how adding TRBO to the APX line affects APX sales at all... Surely they aren't THAT concerned about the TRBO portfolio.

It isn't the sales of other subscriber models they're worried about. Put TRBO into an APX and now you don't need a $20,000 repeater

Unless they plan on offering P25 in the SLR line that seems awfully short-sighted on their part.
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escomm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby escomm » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:29 pm

Whatfer? Put DMR in an APX and now you don't need a GTR8000

firecomm
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby firecomm » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:30 am

escomm wrote:Whatfer? Put DMR in an APX and now you don't need a GTR8000


It would work for people like my Dept that operate on Astro conventional and offer tech rescue to other smaller depts with TRBO.

We already have the infrastructure, we just need our subscriber gear to able to talk directly on the outlying repeaters without the need to patch. We have mutual aid channels, but they're simplex and when you're responding to a Dept 45 km away, it would be a lot easier for us to have access to their repeaters. It would also be easier for us especially for haz calls, that we use our own gear for the incident. Having crews in level A suits and with familiar gear is always preferred. Plus, it would alleviate the need to ask for portables on arrival. We could easily purchase trbo radios for use by our specialized rescue crews, but it would be way better to just have an option to upgrade the radios to TRBO.

Now I'm sure that the flash option will probably be a pricey option to buy, but it's better than having to buy extra radios. 'Cause hey, let's be honest, it's just one more thing for them to lose. Lol.

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motorola_otaku
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby motorola_otaku » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:56 pm

escomm wrote:Whatfer? Put DMR in an APX and now you don't need a GTR8000

In my admittedly limited experience the customer that has a budget for $6000+ subscribers either has the budget for P25 infrastructure as well or is already married to it. Adding P25 to the SLR or XPR lines I could see as being a non-starter, but not adding DMR to the APX line out of some fear that customers will go cheap on the infrastructure after spending $$$ on subscribers makes no sense.

Or to look at it another way: why would a TRBO customer spend megabux on an APX when they can get an XPR for less than a grand? Again, it makes no sense.

Like I said, this kind of thinking is incredibly shortsighted on Motorola's part. If the TRBO option were priced at a grand or above I could see people having some heartburn over it, but price it in the neighborhood of $500 and you'll sell it all day long... again, because the people buying APXes have that kind of budget. Multiply that by a small agency's forty-radio fleet and you've just paid for that GTR some asinine sales manager thinks he's lost.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
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2. Presence of mind

n1gtl
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby n1gtl » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:12 pm

A good reason for putting DMR/TRBO into APX radios is for public safety to have interop with schools. Around here, all the school systems are going with TRBO systems, most using IPSC between schools. TRBO is "digital". P25 is "digital". If towns don't ask the right questions, they may think that police, fire and school systems can all communicate since they're all "digital".

You'll NEVER see P25 in an XPR radio but there really should be an option for TRBO to be in an APX.

Wiregeek
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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby Wiregeek » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:32 am

You'll NEVER see P25 in an XPR radio but there really should be an option for TRBO to be in an APX.


This is what I think, as well. The horsepower and hardware is there for an APX to dance the TRBO dance, and I would like to see it, but I don't even entertain the idea of ever seeing an XPR doing P25 (of whatever phase, conventional or trunking).

And I agree with Mother M on that, I do believe. The XPR and TRBO are getting so good, I'm OK with not having P25 - we don't lose anything, really.

Hmmmmm... I wonder what the RF looks like for putting an XPR mobile or two as an RF resource at the local PD, then they could do patch to bring the LE subscribers into interop with the school... hmmmmm.

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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:55 am

Wiregeek wrote:Hmmmmm... I wonder what the RF looks like for putting an XPR mobile or two as an RF resource at the local PD, then they could do patch to bring the LE subscribers into interop with the school... hmmmmm.

P25 patched to DMR through a console doesn't sound terrible, despite the double-vocoding. It helps if your resource on the P25 side is wireline and not RF.
When exposed to Rapid Fire Growth or Thermal Emergency, two things are lost:
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2. Presence of mind

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Re: Feature Request for TRBO on the APX Line

Postby com501 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:58 pm

If Moto did this, the option would cost $700, per radio.


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