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MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Discussion about Centracom (Button & LED / CRT / Gold / Elite), MC Series (MC5500/7100/7500), and legacy console equipment.

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firecomm
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MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby firecomm » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:59 pm

My dept uses MCC7500's and we dispatch for quite a few depts and some of those depts are migrating over to TRBO. At least 2 of the depts were using MDC signalling before and we had PTT ID and emergency button signalling.

Since the migration we no longer have PTT ID and emergency button signalling. So I'm wondering, is the MCC7500 not capable of having TRBO ID aliases and emergency button signalling? Or is there something else that has to be done in order to facilitate that?

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motorola_otaku
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby motorola_otaku » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:41 am

MCC7xxx console architecture uses the ACIM communications bus to carry stat-alert stuff (PTT ANI, emergency, etc.) from a conventional radio to the console via a CCGW (conventional channel gateway). Only a consolette radio can provide ACIM data, and unless someone knows something I don't there is no such animal as a TRBO consolette.

Obviously this doesn't deal with direct system connections, such as a console site that's networked into an ASTRO25 system core or conventional Quantars or GTRs that are tied into CCGWs.
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d119
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby d119 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:58 pm

At this time the only interface between MCC7500 and TRBO is via control station (Tone Remote or E&M). There is no way to pass radio ID data to the console a-la the aforementioned ACIM connection.

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby firecomm » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:24 am

Excellent! Thanks Otaku and D.

Much appreciated!

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby motorola_otaku » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:23 pm

Given TRBO's wide acceptance in the industrial sector you think they would've addressed this by now.

Is there even a solution for TRBO RID and emergency display and tracking aside from having a radio sitting on the dispatcher's desk?
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d119
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby d119 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:18 pm

motorola_otaku wrote:Given TRBO's wide acceptance in the industrial sector you think they would've addressed this by now.

Is there even a solution for TRBO RID and emergency display and tracking aside from having a radio sitting on the dispatcher's desk?


Not that I'm aware of. The only acceptable solution that I know about that's worth a damn is Avtec's Scout dispatch console. That is available as a wireline solution. My guess is that Motorola came out with TRBO, Avtec jumped on the console side of the house before Motorola had a chance to do anything with it, and Motorola said "screw it, they saved us the R&D costs - we'll just tell people to buy their stuff". That, or more of this nonsense about not wanting to compete with the ASTRO side of the house.

There are other applications that will connect to a control station and give you full control/display of the radio, but that's not practical for a dispatch center, particularly a public safety dispatch center, that already has an existing console solution for all of its other resources.

There's just no means of digital interface out of the control stations into MCC 7500.

I dealt with a VERY small police department where an incompetent vendor had moved them over to VHF TRBO (on a .375kHz split no less, with a 100W amplifier, with a minimum spacing duplexer of .600kHz). All of the surrounding agencies were VHF analog, and they all had each others frequencies programmed into each others radios. They had control stations wired into the CommandStar Lite dispatch console, and yet another control station sitting on the dispatch desk to display radio ID's and handle emergency activations.

When I was done with them, they were back on analog (think interoperability), 915kHz spacing, repeated, voted, and using a neighboring agency's decommissioned Centracom Gold Elite with full MDC decode and console priority.

Life is good for them now. But TRBO just cannot handle proper console interfacing for life/safety applications.

MCC 7500 handles ACIM connections to analog and P25 consolettes and comparators, tone keying, and E&M keying to everything else. It was nice to retire the DIU's when we had a customer switch from Centracom Gold Elite to MCC 7500 for their P25 conventional system. V.24 right out of the AstroTAC into the CCGW. All the IMBE decoding/encoding is done in the VPM.

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby motorola_otaku » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:57 pm

d119 wrote:
motorola_otaku wrote:Given TRBO's wide acceptance in the industrial sector you think they would've addressed this by now.

Is there even a solution for TRBO RID and emergency display and tracking aside from having a radio sitting on the dispatcher's desk?


Not that I'm aware of. The only acceptable solution that I know about that's worth a damn is Avtec's Scout dispatch console. That is available as a wireline solution. My guess is that Motorola came out with TRBO, Avtec jumped on the console side of the house before Motorola had a chance to do anything with it, and Motorola said "screw it, they saved us the R&D costs - we'll just tell people to buy their stuff". That, or more of this nonsense about not wanting to compete with the ASTRO side of the house.

I'm familiar with the Avtec stuff from a couple of buddies that work for the railroad (all of the western Class 1s run Avtec) but didn't know they supported anything other that 4-wire/E&M analog interfacing. I thought the latest generation of Zetron stuff might support it but wasn't sure... and I still don't know how they'd pull data from the radio, unless it's via USB.

CCGW interfacing is my bread and butter... I've tied in Kenwood stuff, TRBO mobiles, Astro Spectras, 4-wire tone remote to a Zetron iRIM to channel-steer a NXDN radio, and even a FedSig Informer for weather alerts. That one taught me that basic CCGWs don't support 2-wire. Just wish they'd support something other than E&M Type II!
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d119
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby d119 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:01 pm

Zetron, being owned by JVC/Kenwood seems to be steering towards the Kenwood mobiles for obvious reasons.

Yes, Avtec has wireline solutions for MotoTRBO IPSC, Cap+, Connect+ and CapMax systems.

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby wavetar » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:03 am

Motorola's own MIP5000 console will do both P25 ACIM and MotoTRBO for RID and emergency. You'd think they could easily port the TRBO gateway functionality over to a CCGW.

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/conte ... _sheet.pdf
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby d119 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:54 am

wavetar wrote:Motorola's own MIP5000 console will do both P25 ACIM and MotoTRBO for RID and emergency. You'd think they could easily port the TRBO gateway functionality over to a CCGW.

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/conte ... _sheet.pdf


Unfortunately though, as you are well aware, this is an RF interface solution, and in all actuality is a pretty cheese-whiz console compared to what else is out there...

I don't think MIP was ever designed to be a primary dispatch console, more of a backup type thing, wasn't it? I digest... er, digress..

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby wavetar » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:49 am

d119 wrote:
wavetar wrote:Motorola's own MIP5000 console will do both P25 ACIM and MotoTRBO for RID and emergency. You'd think they could easily port the TRBO gateway functionality over to a CCGW.

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/conte ... _sheet.pdf


Unfortunately though, as you are well aware, this is an RF interface solution, and in all actuality is a pretty cheese-whiz console compared to what else is out there...

I don't think MIP was ever designed to be a primary dispatch console, more of a backup type thing, wasn't it? I digest... er, digress..


True enough, I was just pointing out it would be seemingly easy to get the functionality to an MCC7500 via CCGW, same way they can with conventional P25 w/ACIM. I can't see them ever giving wireline interface capability to TRBO. Perhaps when they release a TRBO capable APX...and when pigs fly, of course.
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby 3-SAM-12 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:37 pm

Cant the Departments make their emergency channel analog and use MDC like they were before?

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby tuckerm » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:20 am

3-SAM-12 wrote:Cant the Departments make their emergency channel analog and use MDC like they were before?


I believe the XTS series cannot switch back to an analog channel for an emergency while on an P25 channel. I think you can in an APX now.
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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby 3-SAM-12 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:27 am

tuckerm wrote:
3-SAM-12 wrote:Cant the Departments make their emergency channel analog and use MDC like they were before?


I believe the XTS series cannot switch back to an analog channel for an emergency while on an P25 channel. I think you can in an APX now.


The OP said TRBO not XTS.

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby tuckerm » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:28 am

3-SAM-12 wrote:
tuckerm wrote:
3-SAM-12 wrote:Cant the Departments make their emergency channel analog and use MDC like they were before?


I believe the XTS series cannot switch back to an analog channel for an emergency while on an P25 channel. I think you can in an APX now.


The OP said TRBO not XTS.


Same theory applies. I don't think you can revert from DMR to Analog.
Schrodinger's Radio: It is simultaneously too loud and too quiet, but you will never know which until someone transmits.

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby ard099 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:04 pm

I've never used this product but it may be a possible solution.

https://genesisworld.com/assets/uploads ... C_TRBO.pdf

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Re: MCC7500 and TRBO ID's

Postby firecomm » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:08 pm

ard099 wrote:I've never used this product but it may be a possible solution.

https://genesisworld.com/assets/uploads ... C_TRBO.pdf


And as it happens, I just found out today that we are now using a Genesis product, so I'm guessing this is what it is.

Thanks ard099!


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