I'm at a bit of a crisis point for my paging needs of the Search & Rescue unit I'm with. Our alpha-paging provider (also the local MSS) has stopped expanding the system that most of us are carrying pagers for. As we have new members joining, and old pagers need to be replaced, the supply of replacement pagers has dwindled and now stopped. In the past, they were selling us used pagers (at their cost) and providing us with free coverage for the Search & Rescue unit. Between the Search & Rescue unit and the Skywarn/ARES volunteers, I've got a waiting list of about 6 people who need pagers at this point and the list is growing.
There is another company that we could move to, but the cost is unreasonable and 5 times higher per pager than what we were paying for through the MSS. The MSS would still like to provide us with service, and they recognise the problem at hand. The paging division's System Controler has loaned me his Service Monitor, a Code Synthesizer, and the appropriate hardware needed for repairing and tuning pagers. He also gave me a couple of boxes of parts and dead units that needed work. After a brief lesson on how to use the code synthesizer and related equipment, he apologised that he could not find the service manuals. I'm hoping that someone on this board has a few extra copies that they would be willing to part with (I can give you a tax write off, 501C3, or maybe some cash out of my pocket), otherwise I will have to order them from Motorola.
To the best of my knowledge, all the units are 512 baud (or FLEX). The primary format it Pocsag, but I know they have a functional FLEX system that some of the good units are working on. There is also the optoin of Golay, but I'm not familiar with how it works, only that it's there and I might be able to use it if necessary. The pagers we're currently using are in the 460 (most) and 900 Mhz (a few scattered units and some parts units) ranges and could use service manuals for:
Advisor
Advisor Elite
Advisor Gold
Memo Express
Most of the information that I need is tuning info. Most of the parts units I have already have the appropriate crystals in them, but are in need of tuning. I'm sorry that I can't be more specific, I'm kind of new at this. If you need additional info in order to help me better, feel free to ask questions and I'll answer as best as I can. (and research them if I don't know the answer)
I heard a rumor that the new LS350, LS550, and LS750 pagers are frequency synthesized and can be programmed via a hot shoe. If so, I think the MSS is set up for this (and yes, they do support FLEX on the system). Would it be worth it to buy some of the LS series pagers that I'm seeing on ebay. I know that they're still band specific, but at $5 to $10 each or so, it would be worth it to take the chance. In the end I'll come out ahead even if I can only use 1/3 of them. (however I would suspect that most of the units on eBay are 460 and 900 Mhz anyway.)
Thanks for any help you can offer, it is greatly appreciated.
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
Pager service/tuning manuals, -desperate need.
Moderator: Queue Moderator
-
hfitzgerald
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm
-
hfitzgerald
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Anybody? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?
Does anybody know if the LS series can be hot-shoe frequency programmed?
Anybody?
Anybody?
Bueller?
Bueller?
----------------Update-------------------
Many thanks to "The Pager Geek" who sent me a PM.
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
Anybody?
Anybody?
Bueller?
Bueller?
----------------Update-------------------
Many thanks to "The Pager Geek" who sent me a PM.
He didn't have any service mauals, but does anybody else? I'm looking for UHF Advisor, and the others listed above. Thanks for any help that you can offer.Yes the LS series pagers are fully synth, via an infrared programming device to the bottom of them.
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
-
ricciticcitembo
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:00 pm
Hmmm... Aren't most of the newer pagers (especially flex) laser
trimmed ?
They sure were when I was doing it. If it was lo in freq, I'd just
"trim" a little more with an exacto. If it was high then I'd solder
an adjustable cap across the laser trim part.
And unless you get really lucky, Trying to re-crystalize a 6400 Baud
Flex Laser Trimmed Pager, IMHO Your just wasting time. They never
work right again.
As for the regular Advisor it has a Bravo+ receiver board in there.
Most user friendly. Start with those. Once you can correctly align
those, then move on to the Flex jobbies.
I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. I re-crystalled and re-aligned a few hundred pagers in my day, And I never had a Code Synth,
Service monitor, Frequency counter, Or ANY Service manuals at all.
Still don't either. I used a voltmeter and an audio amp (to listen to
the received signal, I'd just tune the pager until it "sounds good"
in my headphones.) Works every time. Sometimes if I was really
having trouble, I'd just grab a ham radio and use that for a signal
injector, but mostly just a set of headphones.
I'm one of those "Fly by the seat of my pants" types.
But nonetheless, What i did really does work, Especially on 512,
1200, and 2400 Baud. It's hairy on Flex hi speed, but in my experience the Flex pagers missed more pages than the 512 or 1200 ones anyway. Even brand new from the Dealer.
Like I said,
did literally hundreds of them without a problem. And I had a retail
Store too, and believe me, the Customer Will return if it wasn't
working.
Also- The Flex units got some A B C D phasing thing in there......
Pay attention to that...make sure it set correct for your system, or
it definitely won't work even if is IS on Freq.
It's been a few years since I've had a pager at all.
There only popular once again for their original Public Safety / Med
/ Fire use. And it makes sense too for group paging.
As for individuals.....
The cool MP3 Cell phones with video games and Online Chat,
Have completely replaced Pagers in the Ghetto. Nobody has a pager anymore. even business users just use their cell phone
Hope that helps.
Dave
trimmed ?
They sure were when I was doing it. If it was lo in freq, I'd just
"trim" a little more with an exacto. If it was high then I'd solder
an adjustable cap across the laser trim part.
And unless you get really lucky, Trying to re-crystalize a 6400 Baud
Flex Laser Trimmed Pager, IMHO Your just wasting time. They never
work right again.
As for the regular Advisor it has a Bravo+ receiver board in there.
Most user friendly. Start with those. Once you can correctly align
those, then move on to the Flex jobbies.
I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. I re-crystalled and re-aligned a few hundred pagers in my day, And I never had a Code Synth,
Service monitor, Frequency counter, Or ANY Service manuals at all.
Still don't either. I used a voltmeter and an audio amp (to listen to
the received signal, I'd just tune the pager until it "sounds good"
in my headphones.) Works every time. Sometimes if I was really
having trouble, I'd just grab a ham radio and use that for a signal
injector, but mostly just a set of headphones.
I'm one of those "Fly by the seat of my pants" types.
But nonetheless, What i did really does work, Especially on 512,
1200, and 2400 Baud. It's hairy on Flex hi speed, but in my experience the Flex pagers missed more pages than the 512 or 1200 ones anyway. Even brand new from the Dealer.
Like I said,
did literally hundreds of them without a problem. And I had a retail
Store too, and believe me, the Customer Will return if it wasn't
working.
Also- The Flex units got some A B C D phasing thing in there......
Pay attention to that...make sure it set correct for your system, or
it definitely won't work even if is IS on Freq.
It's been a few years since I've had a pager at all.
There only popular once again for their original Public Safety / Med
/ Fire use. And it makes sense too for group paging.
As for individuals.....
The cool MP3 Cell phones with video games and Online Chat,
Have completely replaced Pagers in the Ghetto. Nobody has a pager anymore. even business users just use their cell phone
Hope that helps.
Dave
-
The Pager Geek
- Posts: 1250
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:31 pm
- What radios do you own?: Disney FRS
Audio amp and headphones?
With all due respect... no wonder why you could never tune flex pagers... just by going on sound would only give you "512 Baud" quality. POCSAG decoding programs that use a sound card will even tell you that speaker audio is only good for 512 or 1200 POCSAG at most. The error rate for 2400 is too much. Don't even try to "listen" to 6400 Baud 4-level flex for tuning. Especially for search and rescue and public safety needs.
Bravo+ Rx boards aren't always the easiest to tune of the motorola pagers. I'd take a Advisor Gold Flex 900Mhz receiver over a VHF or UHF Bravo+ receiver any day!
Of the 4 pagers he listed, he only needs to know 2 types of receivers: Bravo+ and Vortex / Discovery.
The main differences:
Bravo+ tunes based on the 455KHz filter output at "M1."
Crash course in Bravo+ tuning? Ok....
1: put the pager into test mode (various pagers, various ways)
2: generate a high level signal into the pager.
3: With a frequency counter, adjust the coil next to the crystal for 455Khz +/- 1KHz at M1. (Now it's on freq, next to adjust the sens.)
4: Using an AC Voltmeter or even better an o-scope, back the signal going into the pager down and adjust the remaining caps and inductors for the maximum amplitude of the 455KHz wave, or the maximum AC reading with the LEAST amount of signal needed.
Now your pager is tuned, send it a test page to verify the demod chip and decoder.
As for the Vortex or Discovery Boards....
You should remove the laser trimmed cap opposite the crystal, and replace it with a trim cap. If you have any bad UHF bravo+ boards, the middle 2 variable caps are the correct value, or the cap on VHF Bravo+ boards.
Same thing as above, only tune for 140Khz. Leave the sensitivity alone, unless you plan on taking them "out of band."
Now onto the elites. These receivers are based on both of the above, same design as the discovery / Vortex boards... only these have 455 filters, so you would tune it to 455KHz.
On either of the Vortex / Discovery / Elite boards.. it's better to leave the sensitivity caps alone unless you plan on taking them out of their "bands." The laser trimmed caps are a little difficult with variable caps, and are almost never as good if you had just left well enough alone.
I'm not going into zero IF boards, for they are crap and should not be used. Should you find one, immediately curse at it and take any hammer-like device and smash the crap out of it, so no other person may have to suffer from possible equipment failure caused by this "motorola cost effective" POS. (I think I vented enough on them.)
Not to run off a resume, but... I used to work in a retail pager shop fixing several hundred pagers per WEEK for over 2 years. The retail shop never charged for repairs. Then I went to work at an MSS... also fixing pagers (not as many because the MSS charged a $40 flat rate + parts for pagers... not cheap.)
Good Luck...
tpg
Provider of Useless Information for Years
With all due respect... no wonder why you could never tune flex pagers... just by going on sound would only give you "512 Baud" quality. POCSAG decoding programs that use a sound card will even tell you that speaker audio is only good for 512 or 1200 POCSAG at most. The error rate for 2400 is too much. Don't even try to "listen" to 6400 Baud 4-level flex for tuning. Especially for search and rescue and public safety needs.
Bravo+ Rx boards aren't always the easiest to tune of the motorola pagers. I'd take a Advisor Gold Flex 900Mhz receiver over a VHF or UHF Bravo+ receiver any day!
Of the 4 pagers he listed, he only needs to know 2 types of receivers: Bravo+ and Vortex / Discovery.
The main differences:
Bravo+ tunes based on the 455KHz filter output at "M1."
Crash course in Bravo+ tuning? Ok....
1: put the pager into test mode (various pagers, various ways)
2: generate a high level signal into the pager.
3: With a frequency counter, adjust the coil next to the crystal for 455Khz +/- 1KHz at M1. (Now it's on freq, next to adjust the sens.)
4: Using an AC Voltmeter or even better an o-scope, back the signal going into the pager down and adjust the remaining caps and inductors for the maximum amplitude of the 455KHz wave, or the maximum AC reading with the LEAST amount of signal needed.
Now your pager is tuned, send it a test page to verify the demod chip and decoder.
As for the Vortex or Discovery Boards....
You should remove the laser trimmed cap opposite the crystal, and replace it with a trim cap. If you have any bad UHF bravo+ boards, the middle 2 variable caps are the correct value, or the cap on VHF Bravo+ boards.
Same thing as above, only tune for 140Khz. Leave the sensitivity alone, unless you plan on taking them "out of band."
Now onto the elites. These receivers are based on both of the above, same design as the discovery / Vortex boards... only these have 455 filters, so you would tune it to 455KHz.
On either of the Vortex / Discovery / Elite boards.. it's better to leave the sensitivity caps alone unless you plan on taking them out of their "bands." The laser trimmed caps are a little difficult with variable caps, and are almost never as good if you had just left well enough alone.
I'm not going into zero IF boards, for they are crap and should not be used. Should you find one, immediately curse at it and take any hammer-like device and smash the crap out of it, so no other person may have to suffer from possible equipment failure caused by this "motorola cost effective" POS. (I think I vented enough on them.)
Not to run off a resume, but... I used to work in a retail pager shop fixing several hundred pagers per WEEK for over 2 years. The retail shop never charged for repairs. Then I went to work at an MSS... also fixing pagers (not as many because the MSS charged a $40 flat rate + parts for pagers... not cheap.)
Good Luck...
tpg
Provider of Useless Information for Years
-
ricciticcitembo
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:00 pm
Thanks for the info. I was hoping I'd draw your attention.
And I only started that crap because we were having problems
repeatedly with pagers that we sent out to be re-crystalled.
One time we got back a batch of 30 or so and like half of the
customers came back with complaints about not receiving pages.
I was real upset, and said I could do a better job with a walkman,
and thats what got me started. Didn't really do that many though,
In five years I did the same amount as you in a week. We
really tried to sell the customer a new pager, but you know how
it goes, there's always exceptions.
And yeah, It's those single board No IF pagers that were so
terrible that never worked right from the get-go. They Sucked!!!!
Yeah no wonder I couldn't tune the Flex's. DOH!! I tried my best
though. Didn't work that good....LOL
I never really had much trouble though with the 2400's, well not
that I noticed by customer returns anyway.
My own Pager Always contained a Nice Factory Rx on Frequency.
(DUH. I already know I don't know what I'm doing -with alignment)
Don't worry I'd NEVER do that to a Public Safety pager.
In fact I'll be the first to admit, that I don't really know sh!t about
radios anyway. I got to send my radios to California if I want it
fixed correctly, and I live in Pennsylvania. I normally don't mess
with Any RF Circuits at all, primarily because I lack the necessary
test equipment. But like that won't stop me from building things
that contain radios, Just stops me from repairing radios with RF
issues. Trust me, I'm not going into a service screen on a Spectra
with a set of headphones. (or any other radio either)
And now that I think about it, Fitz said it was for Search and Rescue. So I am really sorry I even posted that non-sense, but
It is a little late for that, so the best I can do is Apologize for it.
I hope no one else tries to align a Pager with headphones. But he
did say he was desperate, so I figured I'd give what info I have,
now I see that was a mistake.
Just don't want anybody thinking I'm the "golden Screwdriver"
type because I'm not. I just made a special exception in the case
of Ghetto Pager repair. Which again- my mistake, was NOT the
topic of this thread, and I had no business replying with that
dribble.
But you Sir are truley an Expert, and your post was most appreciated.
I wish I knew you about 6 years ago. I really should have ordered
some service manuals at least. At least one anyway. Oh well.
And I only started that crap because we were having problems
repeatedly with pagers that we sent out to be re-crystalled.
One time we got back a batch of 30 or so and like half of the
customers came back with complaints about not receiving pages.
I was real upset, and said I could do a better job with a walkman,
and thats what got me started. Didn't really do that many though,
In five years I did the same amount as you in a week. We
really tried to sell the customer a new pager, but you know how
it goes, there's always exceptions.
And yeah, It's those single board No IF pagers that were so
terrible that never worked right from the get-go. They Sucked!!!!
Yeah no wonder I couldn't tune the Flex's. DOH!! I tried my best
though. Didn't work that good....LOL
I never really had much trouble though with the 2400's, well not
that I noticed by customer returns anyway.
My own Pager Always contained a Nice Factory Rx on Frequency.
(DUH. I already know I don't know what I'm doing -with alignment)
Don't worry I'd NEVER do that to a Public Safety pager.
In fact I'll be the first to admit, that I don't really know sh!t about
radios anyway. I got to send my radios to California if I want it
fixed correctly, and I live in Pennsylvania. I normally don't mess
with Any RF Circuits at all, primarily because I lack the necessary
test equipment. But like that won't stop me from building things
that contain radios, Just stops me from repairing radios with RF
issues. Trust me, I'm not going into a service screen on a Spectra
with a set of headphones. (or any other radio either)
And now that I think about it, Fitz said it was for Search and Rescue. So I am really sorry I even posted that non-sense, but
It is a little late for that, so the best I can do is Apologize for it.
I hope no one else tries to align a Pager with headphones. But he
did say he was desperate, so I figured I'd give what info I have,
now I see that was a mistake.
Just don't want anybody thinking I'm the "golden Screwdriver"
type because I'm not. I just made a special exception in the case
of Ghetto Pager repair. Which again- my mistake, was NOT the
topic of this thread, and I had no business replying with that
dribble.
But you Sir are truley an Expert, and your post was most appreciated.
I wish I knew you about 6 years ago. I really should have ordered
some service manuals at least. At least one anyway. Oh well.
-
The Pager Geek
- Posts: 1250
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:31 pm
- What radios do you own?: Disney FRS
No offense taken.... sometimes (even in Ghetto Pager Repair) just doing it right is the easiest way.
The zero IF board was M's attempt at a cheap and easy receiver with virtually no parts but a main demod chip and a crystal that was on the receive freq (after the mulitplier stages.) SO, the crystal would oscilate RIGHT ON THE RECEIVE FREQUENCY! Great concept for pagers that were in a high RF saturation, but for pagers on the fringe area or even "normal" coverage area... it blocked out it's own frequency... that was a smart design.... "Real Men of Genius" comes to mind.....
Everytime I received an advisor gold with a zero-IF receiver with an "intermitant pages" complaint... (Most brand new from the factory not receiving pages in spotty areas...) I'd switch it with a vortex... no more complaint. The count right before I left was ~300 VHF zero-IF boards in a box wasting away....
tpg
The zero IF board was M's attempt at a cheap and easy receiver with virtually no parts but a main demod chip and a crystal that was on the receive freq (after the mulitplier stages.) SO, the crystal would oscilate RIGHT ON THE RECEIVE FREQUENCY! Great concept for pagers that were in a high RF saturation, but for pagers on the fringe area or even "normal" coverage area... it blocked out it's own frequency... that was a smart design.... "Real Men of Genius" comes to mind.....
Everytime I received an advisor gold with a zero-IF receiver with an "intermitant pages" complaint... (Most brand new from the factory not receiving pages in spotty areas...) I'd switch it with a vortex... no more complaint. The count right before I left was ~300 VHF zero-IF boards in a box wasting away....
tpg