Need to beg/borrow/steal a special crimping tool... Haaalp!

Post by **akardam** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:31 pm

Ok. Here's my wild hare story.

I have a Whelen TAD8AA traffic advisor and the accompanying TADCTL1 control head. The lead from the TA ends in bare wires. The control head has a molex connector into it that has bare wires coming out of it. The idea is that you butt-splice the two leads together once you've run the main lead from the TA, bla bla bla.

Now, because of the arrangement in my truck, I wanted to put the wiring harness in as two pieces, so I could facilitate a quick-disconnect of the wiring hardness (in case I have to take my camper shell off). So, after much peering and poking and prodding and looking, I finally discovered that the connector Whelen used is an AMP type made by Tyco (waterproof, to beat... why you'd use a waterproof connector on the back of a PCB is beyond me).

Anyhoo, found all the part numbers for the plug, the cap, all the little bloody metal contacts to go within, etc. etc., and ordered the items to make up what essentially amounts to an extension.

When all the materials arrived, much to my dismay I discovered that crimping by hand the itty bitty metal pins and sockets to go within the plastic connectors (the leads use 20 gauge wires) is not as easy as I thought. So, I dig around a little more and discover that (duh) Tyco makes a tool with which to crimp these little metal pieces on. So, I go look up the price.

500 BLEEDING DOLLARS?!?!?

Ugh. I cannot justify spending 500 bucks on a tool that I'll only use once, maybe twice.

So... it's called a CERTI-CRIMP II hand tool, and Tyco's part number for the 18-22 gauge version is 91522–1.

I know it's a long shot, and I know I could just break down and butt-splice the bloody thing...

... but does anyone here on the board have or know someone who might have said tool that I could maybe buy like 3 kegs of the finest beer in the world in return for a short loan?

You would be my new God. I swear.

Anyone?

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:46 pm

What are the part numbers for the pins/shells? There may be an alternative crimp tool. Knowing the pin part numbers may help identify.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:49 pm

Ahh, the Tyco connectors. Been there done that. Use a D-Sub pin crimper, good electronics stores or computer stores usually have them for $15-$20.

No, i'm not kidding. With a little patience its easily done. I use a standard Amps style D-Sub crimper for stuff like that.

Post by **akardam** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:12 am

Ohoooo reeeeally... I guess I could meander down to the local rat shack and see what they have... is there any trick to successfull crimping? Here's a shot from Tyco's spec sheet on these connectors:

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:04 am

akardam wrote:Ohoooo reeeeally... I guess I could meander down to the local rat shack and see what they have... is there any trick to successfull crimping? Here's a shot from Tyco's spec sheet on these connectors:

Simple mate-n-loks? I do these by hand all the time.

Strip wire. Insert into pin. With a pair of needle-nose pliers, crimp the first two tabs down, one over the other, insuring they're very tight. Crimp the strain-relief down. Then, with a sharp-tipped soldering iron, flow some solder inside.

I've got plenty of vehicles running around with strobe cables built this way - never had one fail.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:59 am

Yep, i've done them that way before too! A touch of solder and those buggers are on for good. Makes the connection more reliable in my opinion.

No trick to using a D-Sub crimper, just get it centered in the tool and crimp. Usually you will use the larger size side of the tool regardless of wire size to make up for the difference in crimp size.

There is plenty ways to skin that cat without paying for the "real" tool.

Post by **akardam** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:13 am

Thanks for the input, guys. I was tryin by hand + needlenose last night and they just weren't staying put. The solder is probably not a bad idea. Good thing I bought plenty of extra connectors. I will give 'em a whirl tonight.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:35 pm

The way i look at it, if i ruin a few contacts its a lot cheaper than buying a tool specifically for the job, and then having said tool rest in my tool box for another year or so before being resurrected for something else.

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:49 pm

kb0nly wrote:The way i look at it, if i ruin a few contacts its a lot cheaper than buying a tool specifically for the job, and then having said tool rest in my tool box for another year or so before being resurrected for something else.

kb,

I hear what you are saying, but.............*gets out his "Monty box" and steps on up..........

It is not a question of whether or not you ruin a few contacts. The question is the quality of the crimp, and the associated quality of the installation. One improper crimp can cause an installation to go terribly wrong, in just a few days/weeks. Then you have an unhappy customer at your door, demanding you fix the installation under warranty. Fixing it will take time. This is time you could be spending, working on "paying" projects. Less time on the "paying" projects = less revenue. Less revenue = less profits. Less profits = your kid not getting the GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip for Christmas.

Having said that, these pins are basically molex style pins, and you don't need a Ceri-Crimp to give you a quality crimp. I am sure that Amp calls out for the Certi-Crimp because it gives you the best crimp for that particular pin. But, just because it gives you the best crimp, that doesn't mean that other, cheaper, crimpers won't give you a quality crimp on the same pin.

*stands down off of the "Monty box" and puts it away for future use*

Good luck with the install. Adding some solder to the plier crimp should work just fine for you.

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:55 pm

Absolutely, i agree with that. If i were doing installs for someone i would most certainly do whatever necessary to insure reliability and safety.

However, i'm into radios as a hobby, and if it means buying $500 tools i need to find a different hobby!!

But, point well taken.

For crimps like these i usually use a ratching d-sub type crimper, its AMP brand name, and i got it cheap when i was at an auction once. I have also used some cheaper d-sub crimpers, i got one that only cost $15 from a local electronics store. It works good enough, but a touch of solder is a good touch of insurance. And, not matter what crimper you use, $500 or not, a touch of solder is always worth the small amount of time it takes.

I'm always picky about soldering and applying heat shrink tubing to all splices and connections, i don't like relying on crimp terminals.

CFDtracker · Post by **CFDtracker** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:27 am

tvsjr wrote:

Strip wire. Insert into pin. With a pair of needle-nose pliers, crimp the first two tabs down, one over the other, insuring they're very tight. Crimp the strain-relief down. Then, with a sharp-tipped soldering iron, flow some solder inside.

I've got plenty of vehicles running around with strobe cables built this way - never had one fail.

Exactly, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Get a pair of needle-nose pliers and a soldering iron. I’ve done countless connectors like this.

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:02 pm

A weatherpak connector tool will do the job quite well, Mac Tools sells such a tool, it is around $28.

SG

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:22 pm

Yes, Weatherpack crimper... That's another one i was trying to think of, i was going to run over to a friends place and check the tool i used last time for the Tyco crimps when we did an install on his truck.

Thanks for chiming in spectragod, sometimes i think my brain is fried from all the RF i encounter.

Post by **akardam** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:30 pm

Something like this, I take it?

http://www.weatherpack.com/pages/900558/index.htm

Given that I'm using the connector with the little rubber wire seal into the deal, which model would y'all recommend?

Thanks again for all the info!

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:35 pm

The Mac tool part # is TCT1028, this is a single crimper, meaning you have to crimp the wire and insulation individually.

I have used some of the others, AMP, some type of ratcheting crimper, I am the most satisfied with the operation of this unit....... three thumbs up.

SG

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:34 am

i have never had a problem and did a good crimp with my Klein crimber have to do it right

kb0nly · Post by **kb0nly** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:04 pm

Yep, that T-12 is the one step crimper.

The T-13 is a two step tool but the benefit is that it will do many different styles and sizes.

I see by that web site that they now have a T-17 for 12 and 10 awg wire.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:33 pm

We have all sorts of special crimper, but heres one I keep in my tool box. It has about 13 different sizes and price is reasonable.
Very easy to order from

http://www.digikey.com search for part number WM9999

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Molex/W ... 1-1000.jpg

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Molex/W ... 1-1000.jpg

kc7gr · Post by **kc7gr** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:01 pm

The reason the AMP Certi-Crimp tool is so pricey is because it is built to military specs, and certified to make crimp connections which will meet military specs.

You can often find used Certi-Crimp tools in good condition on Greed-Bay. The prices I've seen range from $30-$200, depending on condition and features of the specific tool. I've rarely seen the one you would need (for the small open-barrel style pins) go for more than $75.

If you're in the Puget Sound region, they sometimes show up at Boeing Surplus for (usually) between $10-$20. This is where mine came from.

<Monty_Soapbox> While others have obviously had some luck with the needle-nose-and-solder method, the pins were not designed to be treated that way. By using such methods to attach them, you're setting yourself up with a high risk of failure in the long term, especially in high-vibration environments such as a moving vehicle. As others have pointed out, the quality of a crimp connection really is everything, and a quality connection absolutely requires the right tools. </Monty_Soapbox>

So... While I also agree that $500 is pretty ridiculous for a crimping tool, there are alternative sources for them. I would recommend making use of them if you expect your connections to last, and be reliable.

Happy hunting.

willbartlett · Post by **willbartlett** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:51 pm

ok, I'm way late on this subject, but I have about 50 of the high end amp tools in the trunk of my car. A friend was cleaning out the closet of his iso 9000-something fab shop and didn't want to move them. I'll look for the right tool, it may be there.

Post by **akardam** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:26 am

Thanks for all the help, guys. I actually ended up picking up the tool that Alan mentioned from Digikey. The thing worked like a charm! I doubt I'll ever be able to get the connector assembly apart again (but in this case it's probably a good thing).

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:55 am

kc7gr wrote:The reason the AMP Certi-Crimp tool is so pricey is because it is built to military specs, and certified to make crimp connections which will meet military specs.

More like it's specially priced for the military

Post by **akardam** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:47 am

Julius Levinson wrote:You don't actually think they spend twenty thousand dollars on a hammer, thirty thousand dollars on a toilet seat, do you?

Need to beg/borrow/steal a special crimping tool... Haaalp!

Need to beg/borrow/steal a special crimping tool... Haaalp!

You don't always need the CertiCrimp...

Re: You don't always need the CertiCrimp...