Hi,
I have a Smartnet Trunked Radio Repeater system at one repeater location, and another conventional repeater system at second repeater location. I would like to link/integrate the two repeaters systems together using fiber optic cables (smf) to provide a wider coverage area under one system. Does anybody know of devices to do this, or point me in a direction.
Some info on the systems below,
Smartnet Trunked Radio:
-MTC3600 controller
-Quantar repeaters (seven)
Conventional Radio System:
-MTR2000 Repeaters (four)
any help appreciated.
thanks
C
linking repeaters with fiber
Moderator: Queue Moderator
How far are these locations from each other? We talking two buildings down on the hill or is one on a totally different mountain? If they are on the same hill you'll have to find out who controls the right of way then you can proceed to install a conduit and fiber between buildings. If they are on separate hills you'll probably be stuck with T1's because of either side and the phone company. In my area the phone company doesn't have, nor offer any fiber on the mountain tops as they are all microwave linked back to the closest CO. Throw us some more details and we can help ya better.
Just wondering, where abouts are you located? Someone may be able to offer some more localized advice.
Just wondering, where abouts are you located? Someone may be able to offer some more localized advice.
-Robert F.
KG6EAQ
KG6EAQ
The telco might THINK they control the right-of-way but, in all actuality, it is the PUC and/or landowners.
With that aside, I would say that using glass in this situation is WAY overkill but if you really wanna do it, Fore Systems/Marconi makes just what you need.
I forget the exact model number but, I used to see them on eBay all the time going for like $25.00 each. The device took video and stereo audio and would send/receive it over an ATM OC3 to another like device at the other end.
You could use them on "dark" fiber (no telco involved - the best way!) and just plug them back-to-back.
I'll see if I can find the information. A casual search in my TACtics account didn't turn it up.
John
With that aside, I would say that using glass in this situation is WAY overkill but if you really wanna do it, Fore Systems/Marconi makes just what you need.
I forget the exact model number but, I used to see them on eBay all the time going for like $25.00 each. The device took video and stereo audio and would send/receive it over an ATM OC3 to another like device at the other end.
You could use them on "dark" fiber (no telco involved - the best way!) and just plug them back-to-back.
I'll see if I can find the information. A casual search in my TACtics account didn't turn it up.
John
The big questions here are HOW & WHY.
Supposing you had fiber from the Smartnet system to the conventional repeaters, HOW would the interface be accomplished? There are really only two ways to interface conventional channels to a trunking system: either through console patch or through a 'linker'
A linker is a radio based device and console patch can also use RF [control station] so WHY pay for a fiber connection when you can go over the air for free?
Supposing you had fiber from the Smartnet system to the conventional repeaters, HOW would the interface be accomplished? There are really only two ways to interface conventional channels to a trunking system: either through console patch or through a 'linker'
A linker is a radio based device and console patch can also use RF [control station] so WHY pay for a fiber connection when you can go over the air for free?
Hi Cabwong,
You can mux and move pretty much anything over SMF fiber.
4-wire or 2-wire analog, 56/64K V.35 digital, BRI-ISDN, PRI-ISDN, E1, Frac-T1, T1, DS1, or even OCx level. (Digital or analog) You need to determine (2) things, distance, and what you want to punch through from end-to-end.
Up to 20 route miles or so your looking at much lower cost equipment due to the transmitter. Over 20 route miles or so start looking at a 1310nm/0dbm TX card or going to 1550nm on the TX card. Much more expensive. But I don't think that the lightwave transmission equipment is really the issue.
I've been out of the radio biz for awhile but it would seem that the real problem you will face is what are the actual interfaces used on each radio system? and can these interfaces communicate to each other? and I would assume there is some sort of control protocol that needs to be compatible between the (2) sites.
If this is for critical communications you usually have a diversity fiber route that is separate from the primary fiber route. (for backup)
If you have line of site between your facilities, digital microwave is a possible option. If you do not have line of site, fiber is one of many ways to go.
PM me if you want specifics on the lightwave transmission equipment. SONET, Linear, or other.
-Steve
You can mux and move pretty much anything over SMF fiber.
4-wire or 2-wire analog, 56/64K V.35 digital, BRI-ISDN, PRI-ISDN, E1, Frac-T1, T1, DS1, or even OCx level. (Digital or analog) You need to determine (2) things, distance, and what you want to punch through from end-to-end.
Up to 20 route miles or so your looking at much lower cost equipment due to the transmitter. Over 20 route miles or so start looking at a 1310nm/0dbm TX card or going to 1550nm on the TX card. Much more expensive. But I don't think that the lightwave transmission equipment is really the issue.
I've been out of the radio biz for awhile but it would seem that the real problem you will face is what are the actual interfaces used on each radio system? and can these interfaces communicate to each other? and I would assume there is some sort of control protocol that needs to be compatible between the (2) sites.
If this is for critical communications you usually have a diversity fiber route that is separate from the primary fiber route. (for backup)
If you have line of site between your facilities, digital microwave is a possible option. If you do not have line of site, fiber is one of many ways to go.
PM me if you want specifics on the lightwave transmission equipment. SONET, Linear, or other.
-Steve
Hi, thanks for all the help, here some more info to clarify my situation.
the two sites are about 10km apart in an mountaneous, no line of sight, and radio link with vhf is very poor.
there is single-mode fiber between the sites already, hence the question of how to link the two repeater systems with fiber. the fiber is privately owned (no telcos!) so anything goes.
as a minimum, basically i'd just like the systems to operate such that a user in the trunked radio repeater area is able to hear/talk to another user in the conventional repeater area, and vice versa wether this means that the conventional repeater should converted to a trunked radio system?? but that is $$$ for controllers,etc. opinions?
Is it possible to add the conventional sytem repeaters to the trunked radio system as an extension control or some sort thru a fiber link??
any help?
thanks,
Cabwong
the two sites are about 10km apart in an mountaneous, no line of sight, and radio link with vhf is very poor.
there is single-mode fiber between the sites already, hence the question of how to link the two repeater systems with fiber. the fiber is privately owned (no telcos!) so anything goes.
as a minimum, basically i'd just like the systems to operate such that a user in the trunked radio repeater area is able to hear/talk to another user in the conventional repeater area, and vice versa wether this means that the conventional repeater should converted to a trunked radio system?? but that is $$$ for controllers,etc. opinions?
Is it possible to add the conventional sytem repeaters to the trunked radio system as an extension control or some sort thru a fiber link??
any help?
thanks,
Cabwong
OK you answered the WHY question. No path. That is a good reason to look at the fiber link.
Now it appears that you have two HOW questions. First, HOW to connect the equipment to the fiber. Second HOW to interface the conventional channels to the trunking system.
As giantcake said: "You can mux and move pretty much anything over SMF fiber.
4-wire or 2-wire analog, 56/64K V.35 digital, BRI-ISDN, PRI-ISDN, E1, Frac-T1, T1, DS1, or even OCx level. (Digital or analog) You need to determine (2) things, distance, and what you want to punch through from end-to-end..."
In your case one four-wire analog circuit with E&M signalling per conventional channel would probably work. At the conventional end these circuits would connect to the repeaters. COR & PTT would be passed back & forth by the E&M signalling. Transmit and receive audio would go over the 4-wire analog path. The exact interface would depend on the type of conventional repeater [e.g. Quantar, MSF5000, etc.]
At the trunking system end, the ideal thing would be to interface through a BIM in a Centracom console. If you don't have a console system, you could connect to a trunked control station [low power, short local path]
Either way, you can have one talkgroup on the trunking system that is directly connected to each corresponding conventional repeater, thereby allowing complete interoperability.
Now it appears that you have two HOW questions. First, HOW to connect the equipment to the fiber. Second HOW to interface the conventional channels to the trunking system.
As giantcake said: "You can mux and move pretty much anything over SMF fiber.
4-wire or 2-wire analog, 56/64K V.35 digital, BRI-ISDN, PRI-ISDN, E1, Frac-T1, T1, DS1, or even OCx level. (Digital or analog) You need to determine (2) things, distance, and what you want to punch through from end-to-end..."
In your case one four-wire analog circuit with E&M signalling per conventional channel would probably work. At the conventional end these circuits would connect to the repeaters. COR & PTT would be passed back & forth by the E&M signalling. Transmit and receive audio would go over the 4-wire analog path. The exact interface would depend on the type of conventional repeater [e.g. Quantar, MSF5000, etc.]
At the trunking system end, the ideal thing would be to interface through a BIM in a Centracom console. If you don't have a console system, you could connect to a trunked control station [low power, short local path]
Either way, you can have one talkgroup on the trunking system that is directly connected to each corresponding conventional repeater, thereby allowing complete interoperability.
If you have dark fiber between the two sites, you can use DS1 (T1) extention equipment to connect standard channel banks located at the sites. You'd then put cards in the channel banks to provide individual circuits, most likely 4-wire E&M for radio stuff. Larus Corp is a common supplier of DS1 fiber extension equipment ( http://www.laruscorp.com/prodfo.htm ); there are many others. If you need more detail, PM me...
I'm not aware of a device that will put a single 4-wire circuit on single mode fiber. If anyone knows of one, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
If you're on a tight budget, you can also get this kind of stuff (DS1 extension equipment, channel banks, etc.) on the refurbished market. I've dealt with an outfit called Telmar that offers good support (including a warranty) on refurbished telecom equipment. http://www.telmarnt.com
--z
I'm not aware of a device that will put a single 4-wire circuit on single mode fiber. If anyone knows of one, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
If you're on a tight budget, you can also get this kind of stuff (DS1 extension equipment, channel banks, etc.) on the refurbished market. I've dealt with an outfit called Telmar that offers good support (including a warranty) on refurbished telecom equipment. http://www.telmarnt.com
--z
T1 Fiber Modem
Here is one possible solution made by RAD, Model:FCD-T1M (http://www.RAD.com)
This is a box that can be equipped with a fiber interface on one side and on the other side a user slot you can add a card to. They have a card that does 4-Wire E/M (6-ports). The box also has a V.35 data port built-in so you could add data stuff between the sites. (Possibly a router at each end for ethernet)
More than (1) 4-Wire (or 2-Wire) audio channel might be a good idea because you could use the other channel as an orderwire to talk between the sites via handsets. Or, you might need multiple talk paths or signaling paths between your radio systems.
RAD stuff is pretty good. They will also customize stuff for you. They've been around a long time. You can also try http://www.MRV.com , I see a lot of their equipment in the local telco's here.
As far as the fiber transmission, you'll have to be very specific as to the type of interface you want if you talk to a manufacturer. However, they will not know anything about making your radios work over the "transmission" equipment.
I'll be interested to see what your final solution is.
-Steve
This is a box that can be equipped with a fiber interface on one side and on the other side a user slot you can add a card to. They have a card that does 4-Wire E/M (6-ports). The box also has a V.35 data port built-in so you could add data stuff between the sites. (Possibly a router at each end for ethernet)
More than (1) 4-Wire (or 2-Wire) audio channel might be a good idea because you could use the other channel as an orderwire to talk between the sites via handsets. Or, you might need multiple talk paths or signaling paths between your radio systems.
RAD stuff is pretty good. They will also customize stuff for you. They've been around a long time. You can also try http://www.MRV.com , I see a lot of their equipment in the local telco's here.
As far as the fiber transmission, you'll have to be very specific as to the type of interface you want if you talk to a manufacturer. However, they will not know anything about making your radios work over the "transmission" equipment.
I'll be interested to see what your final solution is.
-Steve