Pro Series (HT/CDM) RSS License

Post by **engvt** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:38 am

I signed a license agreement and just tried to purchase a legit copy of the RSS for the CDM and HT
series ("PRO") from Mot and they told me that only authorized dealers could purchase this software. I also know that they sell it to larger end users such as state government. How do I get around this? I know this is of course Motorola protectionist business practice to guard their local overpriced and incompetent shop from having to compete but what can one do about it? If you have purchased this and don't fit the criteria that
they told me about I would like to hear from you since there is obviouslya precedent.

If you would rather respond off list you can do so to my email: [email protected].

W4WTF · Post by **W4WTF** » Thu May 06, 2004 12:00 pm

Easiest and most common solution?

Buy Kenwood.

dxon2m · Post by **dxon2m** » Thu May 06, 2004 1:08 pm

Or Vertex

kmoose · Post by **kmoose** » Thu May 06, 2004 1:28 pm

When they say "Dealer", I don't think they are referring to a dealer as you and I would. We have a parts account with Motorola. They will sell us piece parts to maintain our radios, but we cannot buy whole radios from them. I'm sure that they have some minimum order, on some kind of calendar basis, that we have to meet, to maintain this parts account status. We have never had a problem getting RSS. The biggest issue we have had, in that area, is not being allowed to sign and fax back the agreement that they faxed to us. Apparently, fax copies are only of sufficient quality when they are sent TO someone, not received FROM someone?

jim · Post by **jim** » Thu May 06, 2004 2:25 pm

Or anything that doesn't start with a letter "M."

Post by **engvt** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:28 pm

Unfortunately if you have customers who have these radios you need to be able to program them. I would much rather sell other brands. I have a parts account but that apparently does not do it even though I have mailed in all the correct licensing forms.

E911EMT · Post by **E911EMT** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:33 pm

You have to be a dealer to buy Kenwood Software.. vertex is the only one that anyone can buy...

chtucker · Post by **chtucker** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:53 pm

You have to be a dealer to buy Kenwood software? Maybe, but then the dealer can resell it to whomever they want...My dealer GIVES me original copies of the software, and has emailed firmware upgrades as they become available.

Icom will sell direct to governmental angencies; or my dealer does the same as Kenwood. I am demoing a 1020 now..

Haven't bought a vertex yet.

Moto made me give some serial numbers of radio types that I wanted to program. Just a bunch of paperwork.

I hate motos prices, but the ONLY handheld in VHF conv. that I have found near the quality of an MT/HT series radio is the Kenwood TK-290. I have an f30gt that is a joke, compared to those two. I have a few of the f-50 submersibles now and they look very promising.

In my position where I am dealing with radios that have been in the field for 10+ years, Moto has given me no trouble for RSS. On the otherhand I have been buying fr3000 repeaters cause I can get them overnighted if I want. FR3000 is $2550 versus at least $6500 for a simmillarly equiped MTR2000 that is of the same build quality.

Howard

W4WTF · Post by **W4WTF** » Thu May 06, 2004 4:39 pm

I know a FD that is about to ask for bids for 40 new UHF portables and 6 Mobiles. I think I will advise them to include in the specs "Vendor must supply all programming software, equipment, and licenses for same as part of contract".

We will see how /\/\ reacts..........

chtucker · Post by **chtucker** » Thu May 06, 2004 5:45 pm

State of Colorado requires ^^^ that in all state bids

This is the terminology they use:
Due to the various methods used for programming and maintaining synthesized radios, as well as the varying costs of the programming equipment, the State of Colorado has chosen to evaluate this bid on the radio equipment only without consideration for the cost of special hardware, software or adapters required for programming and/or maintenance. In order to do this, the vendor shall supply, on request, at no cost any special hardware, software or adapters used for programming and/or maintenance for all of the 14 state operated shops that will be responsible for equipment purchased from this bid. All software must be IBM compatible, supplied on 3 1/2" floppy disk or CD. All instructions for programming the radios shall be supplied to all shops as required. All software upgrades will be provided free of charge for the term of this contract to all shops as required.

All vendors (Icom, Kenwood, Moto and MA/Com) comply with the above.

Good luck

Howard

MassFD · Post by **MassFD** » Thu May 06, 2004 7:06 pm

Except when the vendor supplys the software it's them that it is registered to so you as the end user will not get updates unless the vendor wishes to provide you with the updates also.

I'l bet that arangment also violates the licensing from big M

jim · Post by **jim** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:48 pm

Yes, it violates "M"s rules, but also excludes them from bidding. If they want to sell the radios to Colorado, they must play by Colorado's rules. If Colorado requires hardware and software be included to consider a supplier, it's their privelege to do so. If you don't want to supply these items as per bid specs, you can't bid. That simple! It's about time someone have the nuts to dictate some rules on the manufacturers.

Oh...Kenwood dealers are allowed to sell Kenwood software to anyone that walks through the door. Most will give it to you.
Vertex charges $60.00 for a COMPLETE software collection.

chtucker · Post by **chtucker** » Thu May 06, 2004 9:20 pm

I should add that "I" am the licensed user for all of the Motorola software that we have... it is all licensed to "Lake County Government". I signed the 8-9 page document. Didn't read it, as I knew basically the electric chair was the punishment for violating their rules. (JOKE

)

TELL the vendor what you want and they will figure out a way... When you start spending 30-40k (what 40 handhelds are going to cost) people listen.

I switched to ICOM repeaters for this reason... Moto was 2 weeks overdue on an MTR2000 delivery. Weather was about to close access off to a site. I emailed ICOM Sunday night at 9pm. 8am Monday they called and said is Tuesday SOON ENOUGH. I had it in my hands before lunch on Tuesday.

Service counts.

Howard

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:51 pm

The only way to make /\/\ do things the right way is to wave a couple million bucks around in their face, and chanting certain words such as "Kenwood" and "Icom".

Tony Soprano · Post by **Tony Soprano** » Fri May 07, 2004 4:34 am

E911EMT wrote:You have to be a dealer to buy Kenwood Software.. vertex is the only one that anyone can buy...

I've never been able to to figure this one out. I've been able to buy OEM Kenwood software from a dealer (I'm not one) but Vertex, as in the company, won't sell me software. I've tried numerous times, but they won't even talk to me about it. They happily sold me cables.

One Vertex rep I spoke with said that if I was "resourceful enough", I could find the software! He was right.

W4WTF · Post by **W4WTF** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:07 am

MassFD wrote:Except when the vendor supplys the software it's them that it is registered to so you as the end user will not get updates unless the vendor wishes to provide you with the updates also.

I'l bet that arangment also violates the licensing from big M

Thats why I included the term licensing in what I said. make them include a RSS license if they want the sale. That will make the dealer, who has more pull, talk to whomever makes the decisions and get the approval.

If the policy starts costing em sales they may get enough pressure from the dealers to change it.

jim · Post by **jim** » Fri May 07, 2004 6:03 pm

Vertex dealers sell the Vertex software. The part number for the software is on the rear of the radio's sales brochure. Have them order that part number for you. Manufacturers usually want for you to deal with their dealers and not with them directly....unless their name starts with "Motorola."

wb6fly · Post by **wb6fly** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:12 pm

A previous post alleged that a Motorola MTR2000 repeater costs about $6,500. I suppose an unwary buyer might be suckered into spending "sticker price" for an MTR2000, but not me!

I just bought a complete 100 watt VHF MTR2000 for just under $4,000, including shipping to my door. The optional microphone, speaker, speaker cable, programming cable, and the RVN4148 RSS adds another $400 or so, but I already had these items on-hand.

When I am buying new radio equipment, I make up a "Request for Quotation" that lists EXACTLY the equipment and options that I want. The dealer cannot add or substitute anything, and he must fax his signed offer back to me with a single dollar figure that includes all shipping charges and taxes. I was amazed that the responses ranged over a spread of almost $2,000. One of the dealers had the gall to proclaim his offer to be "highly competitive" when it was, in fact, the second-highest!

I am aware that an MTR2000 station that includes such factory options as a duplexer, additional circulators, or auxiliary control boards can approach or surpass the $6,500 figure, but my purchase of a T5766A MTR2000 station was to replace an existing MICOR station.

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