I have heard a few horror stories in the past about Motorola keeping radios that were sent to them for repair after they claim the radio was altered with illegal software.
Well I recently met up with a friend of mine who had a similar experience after buying an Astro at one of the local hamfests.
He was telling me that he bought the radio at a low price because it had a problem. He called Motorola to see how much it would cost to have repaired. They told him it was the DSP and it would be a flat rate to fix.
He sent the radio to Motorola and after 6 or 7 weeks, he called them and inquired about the status. They told him that they could not return the radio to him becaused it had been altered with illegal software. He asked if it meant that the radio was stolen and they told him that it was not but that the feature set had been altered and it was approved by Motorola for the alterations.
Well this did not go over very well with him and being the no BS kind of guy he is , he asked them to send him a complete explaination as to why they were keeping the radio. Upon receiving the statment in the mail from Motorola , he took it to his attorney and let him do the rest.
It took a few months but he finaly got the radio back repaired minus the cost of attorney fees.
I guess this just goes to show you that not even Motorola is above the IRS.
Motorola can't keep your radio
Moderator: Queue Moderator
The bottom line is that the radio DOES NOT belong to Motorola. That is like if I take my Porsche back to the dealer for a blown engine and they find that I have aftermarket performance software in the engine controller and they say "I'm sorry, but your car has software features that were not installed by our factory and are approved only for use in Australia or Germany. We are going to keep your car." I'd like to see anyone else try this one. Motorola has always had a serious "God" complex about themselves. They're just pi**sed because they're company is falling faster than the Taliban.
Is there any possibility your friend would let you post the letter to this board - complete with the Motorola department name and address along with the name of the signatory? There may be someone who frequents this board who might be able to lend some insight.
As others have stated, Motorola has no right to seize any equipment, assuming of course it wasn't owned directly by, and stolen directly from Mot.
As others have stated, Motorola has no right to seize any equipment, assuming of course it wasn't owned directly by, and stolen directly from Mot.
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Dale Earnhardt
- Posts: 848
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Your right, I think The big M, think it is God most of the time, and can do anything they want to. If they took my radio, I would be very pissed cause i spent that much money, only just to find out it was mess up and had to send it to motorola for addition cost on shipping, then waste my time on the phone with them, and wasteing my other useful time that I can use rather then trying to get my radio back, I dont think soooo. Maybe we all should do that, get a laywer, and if they take the radio, demand an explantion, and give them hell, lol.
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Elroy Jetson
- Posts: 1158
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
This information is essentially correct, but it is fair to note that Motorola does have certain intellectual property rights that are enforceable. However, they do not extend to the point where a hacked radio can be legally seized.
There are three issues that have to be balanced:
First, the issue of right of fair use. This says that you can do pretty much whatever you want with equipment that is your property, including adjusting or modifying any computer code within it so as to make it more useful to you. However, you may not perform 'fair use' manipulations on products for profit or for distribution. Meaning that if you hack a radio, you legally must unhack it if you sell it.
Second is the issue of product tampering. This one is sort of hairy because it overlaps the fair use issue. As a general principle, in the case of radios, fair use applies to the user-modifiable portion of the radio's operating software and codeplug, and product tampering applies to firmware and mask programmed hardware. Essentially, you could make a case that tweaking the radio's flashcode is acceptable under fair use, while playing around with the HOST and DSP code would constitute product tampering. This code can not be accessed without special equipment and can not be changed by hacking the user-accessible codeplug, while a flashcode CAN, with the right software adjustments...adjustments that may be possible within the fair use rules.
The third issue is provability. It's simple. If they can't prove beyond any reasonable doubt WHO tampered with the product, and HOW it was done, as well, then it's unenforceable in any practical aspect.
The really interesting thing about this is that if you can verify ownership of a radio under dispute with Motorola and they won't send it back to you, you only have to file a formal report with the police declaring the item to be stolen. Not even Motorola wishes to be charged with possession of stolen property and conspiracy to deprive the rightful owner of possession and use of his property. They may growl at you and threaten you, suggesting they'll have your computer raided for an illegal software check, but would any judge issue a search warrant in such circumstances? I'd bet not.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Take this info with a grain of salt, and consult a lawyer regarding these issues instead of just taking me at my word about it. I'm not knowingly lying to you, but I could be way off base from a legal perspective and not know it.
Elroy
There are three issues that have to be balanced:
First, the issue of right of fair use. This says that you can do pretty much whatever you want with equipment that is your property, including adjusting or modifying any computer code within it so as to make it more useful to you. However, you may not perform 'fair use' manipulations on products for profit or for distribution. Meaning that if you hack a radio, you legally must unhack it if you sell it.
Second is the issue of product tampering. This one is sort of hairy because it overlaps the fair use issue. As a general principle, in the case of radios, fair use applies to the user-modifiable portion of the radio's operating software and codeplug, and product tampering applies to firmware and mask programmed hardware. Essentially, you could make a case that tweaking the radio's flashcode is acceptable under fair use, while playing around with the HOST and DSP code would constitute product tampering. This code can not be accessed without special equipment and can not be changed by hacking the user-accessible codeplug, while a flashcode CAN, with the right software adjustments...adjustments that may be possible within the fair use rules.
The third issue is provability. It's simple. If they can't prove beyond any reasonable doubt WHO tampered with the product, and HOW it was done, as well, then it's unenforceable in any practical aspect.
The really interesting thing about this is that if you can verify ownership of a radio under dispute with Motorola and they won't send it back to you, you only have to file a formal report with the police declaring the item to be stolen. Not even Motorola wishes to be charged with possession of stolen property and conspiracy to deprive the rightful owner of possession and use of his property. They may growl at you and threaten you, suggesting they'll have your computer raided for an illegal software check, but would any judge issue a search warrant in such circumstances? I'd bet not.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Take this info with a grain of salt, and consult a lawyer regarding these issues instead of just taking me at my word about it. I'm not knowingly lying to you, but I could be way off base from a legal perspective and not know it.
Elroy
I got to agree with Elroy again! (thats 3 agreements in a row Elroy! Remind me to send you a tee-shirt) If you want to see all hell break lose..If you work in a radio-repair & programming shop. And your pc that writes to the radio, and that pc just happened to have a virus! that went in the codeplug..now the calls start comming in on the phone. My radio is acting crazy! "M" will send a rep to that place...& infect some of the radios they bring. checkout the pc. cause you can guess by now..an employee might have brought in a floppy (that had "whatever" virus left on it) Then watch the boss have a fit! Someone gets the axe. well the story goes on! But be warned for some people that send it in for repair. And "M" picks up a virus. I've only seen two people, not get the radio back! Cause they work at Burger King or where-ever? I guess they gave the wrong answers to big "M"s questions...bottom line...keep your anti-virus definitions up-to-date, use new floppies. Has anyone else seen and or heard of the above problem?
Hello.
Motorola has some "issues" with hacked radios. What would happen if M wanted to control the reprogramming of STX radios, they did just that, with the Smartnet system.
The courts had ruled in favor of moto', against Standard Radio, S/R used NO moto code. However this P/O several who build RIBs and hacked their own RSS, S/W that allows one to do anything, change any value.
Who laughs last laughs loudest.
Motorola has some "issues" with hacked radios. What would happen if M wanted to control the reprogramming of STX radios, they did just that, with the Smartnet system.
The courts had ruled in favor of moto', against Standard Radio, S/R used NO moto code. However this P/O several who build RIBs and hacked their own RSS, S/W that allows one to do anything, change any value.
Who laughs last laughs loudest.