XTS 5000 Does anyone know....?

mpython · Post by **mpython** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:25 pm

We just got XTS 5000 model 1 Astro portables.

Problem is that they will barely talk across the street. We are also told that they can't configure them the way we want.
Chan Select-Std
Concentric Switch for scan
ABC switch for Gr123....1 digital channel, rest convential analog
Mon Button--Std
Upper side button...empty
Lower side button....nuisance delete
Did we get excellent radios

or did we buy a pig in a poke

Post by **/\/\y 2 cents** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:53 pm

they are somewhat pig in a poke, then again I could have a little bit of a jealousy problem too since they are the most expensive...doyou have xts5000's without a repeater? I don't see how your range would be any less than the radios you replaced on your system. If they are digital, they will NOT get even close to the analog 's range because of packet loss. What is the application? PM me if you have any further questions.
Steve

Post by Pj » Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:29 pm

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to use the Astro25 CPS.

Not sure what you mean by GR123, but I am assuming zones.

What band, and what kind of repeater system? I'd check to see if the personailities are setup for default high power transmit.

I have ours setup as:
Channel knob - Channel selection 1-16
Concentric - Coded/Clear
A/B/C - Blank/Blank/Scan
Blue button-Squelch
Middle - Light
Bottom - Nus delete

All channels are analong simplex/repeater, with one as a simplex digital channel strapped to secure. VHF, no problems.

I'd have to disagree (from my experiences) about the range limitiing issue. We get the same range simplex analog or digital. In fact due to the error correction etc, we get a little more voice a little longer...although it suffers at that point..but it is somewhat recovered.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:18 pm

As to IMBE versus analog FM range, the Quantar System Planning Guide goes into great detail explaining that for equal ERPs, ASTRO coverage is virtually identical to analog FM coverage, ceterus paribus.

Larry

RocketNJ · Post by **RocketNJ** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:17 am

Also the alignment should be checked on a problem unit, just to make sure they are in alignment.

What version host/dsp?

The XTS5000 radios have better rx and tx specs than the 3000s.

George

Post by **/\/\y 2 cents** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:02 pm

Yeah I guess you should tell radio-ignorant customers range is the same if you are motorola and have to cover your butt saying that digital has similar range charachteristics to analog so plan ERP's about the same. You figured they (/\/\) would have learned a lesson on sound and coverage of digital when they had to make DES-XL since DES had terrible talkout and recieve characteristics, and the customers wouldnt put up with it. Trust me...they are not the same, Motorola would like you to think that because of all of the problems they are having with customer complaining about sound quality and coverage. Just ask anybody who uses the state of florida ASTRO system about coverage since they put the digital towers right next to the old ones and it's about 30% worse coverage on a handheld.

Post by Pj » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:26 pm

The -XL encyption is/was a totally different issue (also cira 1970's) then IMBE. -XL provides 90%+ range as analog.

RocketNJ · Post by **RocketNJ** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:54 pm

We've got a mixed mode system with both active analog and Astro users. From our experience we have found that Astro maintains full readablility (DAQ3 or better audio) further than analog. An analog signal that is 60% quieting (noisy) is full copy in Astro. Our users prefer the Astro over analog.

Only on the very fringe is Astro worse than analog (and the analog would be so bad that normal squelch thresholds would not let it pass).

I cannot say why the FL digital system does not perform as well as the old analog system. Are you directly involved technically with the FL system or are you making those assumptions by listening on a scanner/radio? There may be other factors to explain it.

Again, compare analog and Astro users on the SAME SYSTEM.

George

/\/\y 2 cents wrote:Yeah I guess you should tell radio-ignorant customers range is the same if you are motorola and have to cover your butt saying that digital has similar range charachteristics to analog so plan ERP's about the same. You figured they (/\/\) would have learned a lesson on sound and coverage of digital when they had to make DES-XL since DES had terrible talkout and recieve characteristics, and the customers wouldnt put up with it. Trust me...they are not the same, Motorola would like you to think that because of all of the problems they are having with customer complaining about sound quality and coverage. Just ask anybody who uses the state of florida ASTRO system about coverage since they put the digital towers right next to the old ones and it's about 30% worse coverage on a handheld.

Post by **batdude** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:25 pm

in my experience, i get a more even coverage range using digital on my quantar.

readability and comprehension may be another issue - but dsp 8 seems to have fixed most of those problems.

the only thing i don't like is having to run my machine in mixed mode... if i had more astro users i would run digital only.

and yes, it's a 2m machine.

doug

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:46 am

/\/\y 2 cents wrote: You figured they (/\/\) would have learned a lesson on sound and coverage of digital when they had to make DES-XL since DES had terrible talkout and recieve characteristics, and the customers wouldnt put up with it. .

It's an apples & oranges comparison, really. Back then, the original SecureNet DES algorithm had NO error checking...NONE. Forget the the fact it sounded like crap, that was a separate issue due to the limitations of the digital-to-analog technology at the time. With no error checking, DES only had about 65-70% of the range of analog. That is a fact & nobody who has any experience with DES would dispute that. But, when rudimentary error checking was introduced for DES-XL, range was increased to somewhere in the 95-110% range. That's right, depending on various factors, it actually worked better than analog for range...still sounded like crap...but range issues were solved.

When it comes to IMBE, Motorola didn't really have to 'learn' anything, since it's not their technology. We all know the IMBE digital sound is far superior to the old Securenet thanks to much improved digital-to-analog conversion technology. As well, the amount of error checking with IMBE is far above & beyond what DES-XL had. This gives us range nearly equal to, or better than analog, depending on the circumstances. This has proven itself on our province-wide SmartZone/Omnilink system.

The state of Florida was unfortunately a guinea pig of sorts, since they were the first major system to have not only IMBE, but SmartZone Omnilink as well, essentially making them a live field test for still-developing technologies.

Todd

RocketNJ · Post by **RocketNJ** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:09 am

Isn't FL a MA/COM system? I thought FL dumped the Moto system.

See this quote:

"From MA/COM Press Release:

Tallahassee, Fla., – Sept. 10, 2004 — Florida’s Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System (SLERS) weathered two major hurricanes, operating successfully during Hurricanes Charley, Frances and their aftermath, according to state law enforcement officials. Supplied by M/A-COM, Inc, a business unit of Tyco Electronics, the single, state-of-the-art common radio network continues to showcase Florida as a leader in the nation for state law enforcement communications."

George

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:38 am

RocketNJ wrote:Isn't FL a MA/COM system? I thought FL dumped the Moto system.

See this quote:

"From MA/COM Press Release:

Tallahassee, Fla., – Sept. 10, 2004 — Florida’s Statewide Law Enforcement Radio System (SLERS) weathered two major hurricanes, operating successfully during Hurricanes Charley, Frances and their aftermath, according to state law enforcement officials. Supplied by M/A-COM, Inc, a business unit of Tyco Electronics, the single, state-of-the-art common radio network continues to showcase Florida as a leader in the nation for state law enforcement communications."

George

]

Well, if they do have a crappy TYCO system, then it's certainly not Opensky----that system totally sucks, but as a guinua pig I suppose with Florida, anything is possible.

-Josh

ASTRO_25 · Post by **ASTRO_25** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:56 am

The Motorola system is still maintained in South East Florida.... but will be converted to EDACS ProVoice DES (w/ESK control channel) sooner or later.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:23 am

mpython wrote: We just got XTS 5000 model 1 Astro portables.
Problem is that they will barely talk across the street. We are also told that they can't configure them the way we want.
Chan Select-Std
Concentric Switch for scan
ABC switch for Gr123....1 digital channel, rest convential analog
Mon Button--Std
Upper side button...empty
Lower side button....nuisance delete
Did we get excellent radios or did we buy a pig in a poke

Who's system are you on? AFAIK, all the non-federal conventional stuff down here is analog.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:54 am

The NSW Police UHF conventional radio system is partly digital, on several of the Sydney channels. The cops there (and one radio tech) I've talked to have said they've had nothing but superior performance in the city - in areas where they had excessive noise problems in analogue FM, they are now getting full copy on digital.

XTS 5000 Does anyone know....?

XTS 5000 Does anyone know....?

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Re: XTS 5000 Does anyone know....?