900Mhz Astro Spectra?

Post by **xmo** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:14 am

There is a little chart in the service manual for each radio [Astro Spectra and Analog Spectra] that lists the component value and jumper changes between bands.

I think if you sat down with both manuals you could identify which parts to change to make an Astro 900 RF board out of a board from another band. Then you would put that RF board in a 900 Analog Spectra chassis to use the 900 range front end, PA, and VCO boards.

This would still be a challenging project since a 900 Astro codeplug does not exist - you would have to hack an 800 codeplug. If the objective is a 900 ham band application - there would still be the issue of getting the VCO to go to those frequencies.

A more realistic project would be the one I may undertake. Starting with a VHF analog Spectra and an 800 Astro Spectra - ending with an 800 analog Spectra and a VHF Astro Spectra.

This project would start with converting the analog VHF RF board to 800 and the 800 Astro RF board to VHF by changing out the half dozen or so components and jumpers.

The analog VHF command board and MLM go into the 800 chassis. Thanks to the work of Nate and others, hacking those is a documented process.

Hacking an 800 Astro VOCON down to VHF will require the special software it takes to force in the appropriate codeplug.

d119 · Post by **d119** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:34 am

ASTROMODAT wrote:BTW, this brings up why it is so important to get the original sales receipts/proper tags, etc. on eBay radios. Otherwise, you have no idea how many Ham radio operators and others have screwed around with who the heck knows how many multiple radio mods, and screwed up what started out as a great radio.

Larry

Now now... Let us not generalize so much, Larry... I'd say a good 80% of us Batlabber's have our tickets.

kb3jkp · Post by **kb3jkp** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:14 pm

a little OT but... isnt the whole entire reason amateur radio was created was for experimentation? oh no.. gotta love our allocated frequencies..

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:07 pm

Yes, Ham radio initially started out as an experimenter’s venue with the goal of advancing the state-of-the-art. This was the case up until the mid to late 1950's when Hams messed around with SSB. If nothing else, it got the attention of the Gov't that Donald Duck sounding voice was a good trade-off for less occupied bandwidth, and about 6 dB of more useful "talk power." Since that time, what have Hams done to advance the state-of -the art? IMHO, nothing. FM and repeaters were long established before Hams fell in love with 2M and autopatch. Same thing was true for packet---too little, too late. The only advancement to come along is D-STAR, as it is approaching an order of magnitude faster mobile data speeds than Motorola's 19.2 kb/s RDLAP ASTRO overlay stuff. Even so, cellular has 2G, 2.5G, 3G, EDGE, UMTS, etc. that are already working in Europe, and soon to be in the US, involving mobile data speeds of up to 10 Mb/s. Even D-STAR is a vendor implemented technology that was underwritten by ICOM. The only advancement attributable to Hams using D-STAR will be software applications. While those software apps will be neat and leverage all sorts of VoIP stuff, they will not be considered as advancing the state-of-the-art. It's too bad, because as the blue bearded, halitosis plagued Hams soon all die off, I don't see the eminen generation of kids getting their Ham tickets. The multi-Billion$ Ham freqs will go to the commercial boys. Oh, well...

Larry

d119 · Post by **d119** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:54 pm

FM and repeaters were long established before Hams fell in love with 2M and autopatch.

Actually Larry, you have apparently not done your homework. The world's first repeater (W6MEP, an AM repeater) was set up and operated on 147.240MHz on Mt. Lee. The repeater as we know it was developed by hams. I interpret your statement above to mean that repeaters & interconnect was not developed by hams. With regards to the repeater aspect, you're wrong. The repeater wasn't developed by Motorola or some commercial entity, it was developed by a ham. Sorry to burst your bubble. That fancy ASTRO system of yours had a ham behind it in the very beginning of repeaters.

If you have ever used a ham radio repeater, then you owe a debt of
gratitude to a California ham named Arthur M. Gentry, W6MEP. Back in
the late 1940's Art Gentry began experimenting with advanced receiver
designs of that era that led to the development of the first practical
ham radio repeater. His system, using the call sign K6MYK, came on the
air in the early 1950's from atop Mt. Lee. That's the hill overlooking
Los Angeles that is home to the famous Hollywood sign. Every repeater
on the air today can literally trace its ancestry back to the early
experiments of W6MEP. But time has taken its toll on Art's health.
A few years ago, he turned over the day-to-day operation of the system
to his longtime friend Bill Arens, N6NMC

Check your facts!

It's too bad, because as the blue bearded, halitosis plagued Hams soon all die off, I don't see the eminen generation of kids getting their Ham tickets. The multi-Billion$ Ham freqs will go to the commercial boys. Oh, well...

You truly are a moron, Larry. You showed your true colors with that comment. For whatever it's worth to you, not all hams are blue-bearded halitosis plagued. I got my license before I could even drive a car. And let me tell you - there's PLENTY of young people involved in amateur radio, and even more getting involved every day. Yes, the eminem generation is involved in Ham Radio. While I predict the loss of some spectrum to commercial interests, I'm quite sure amateur radio will continue to thrive.

Now, since you don't have anything nice to say (ever, it seems), why dont you just go back to talking to yourself in IMBE on your million-dollar radio system that you "built yourself".

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:07 pm

d119, your ignorance is displayed in your post. First off, you don't know a darn thing about me, nor my system. I certainly didn't see you there when I purchased it from Motorola, you pathetic wannabe. Second, what was the installation and/or turn-up date of the AM repeater? Third, Ham radio is stagnant, if not declining, and Ham radio interest from young folks is extremely low. Check out the average age at Hamfests. Check out the average age of Hams---it's like 60+ years old. Next time, check your facts before you post, or go troll on some other board.

Larry

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:51 pm

hmmm seems to me that 2m ham radio went to FM when the COMMERCIAL boys were required to go to 5k deviation from 15, and we got the hand-me-downs.

the pecking order seems to be:

Govt
commercial
hams

most repeaters around here dont even use PL, which is HOW old? god you should hear them complain about the ASTRO repeaters.

ham radios place in experimentation has lagged, atleast untill you get into the microwave spectrum, but i say that only because im ignorant to what the state of the art is in microwave, both commercial and amateur.

look at amateur data, you cited D-stars, which is what 10mbs?? and the mobile costs 1300.00 and is 1.2Ghz? hmm thats funny, because i can go to walmart and spend 50.00 and get a 2.4GHz radio, with 54Mbs speed..

as for digital radio, HOW long as astro been around?

i wont even get into the arguement of trunked radio systems, because im tired of hearing "hams have no use for that"

fact is that as a generalization, we as hams have made no great advances in decades... its a pity really.. we have become obsolete, and now we have tons of extremely valuable VHF/UHF spectrum (you bet the commercial folks would LOVE to have some of our 420-450 allocation, thats prime real estate right there)

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:17 pm

I couldn't agree with you more, grem467. Same thing here---PL is considered to be advanced technology for most bluebeard Hams. ASTRO has been around since 1991, yet our local feq coordination council treats ASTRO like it is experimental. They even said it might not be legal for Ham use. Yes, it's true---Hams are their worst own enemies!

d119 · Post by **d119** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:45 pm

d119, your ignorance is displayed in your post. First off, you don't know a darn thing about me, nor my system. I certainly didn't see you there when I purchased it from Motorola, you pathetic wannabe. Second, what was the installation and/or turn-up date of the AM repeater? Third, Ham radio is stagnant, if not declining, and Ham radio interest from young folks is extremely low. Check out the average age at Hamfests. Check out the average age of Hams---it's like 60+ years old. Next time, check your facts before you post, or go troll on some other board.

Larry

Larry,
Sorry you feel that way. You're the one who initiated it with your judgements and generalizations, since you so publicly stated your opinion, am I not entitled to mine?

What makes me a pathetic wannabe? I don't get it. What is it that I am not, that I want to be? Once again Larry, you're saying things that don't make sense, indicating you're speaking without thinking.

Believe me Larry, I checked my facts about the W6MEP repeater and the history of the repeater LONG before I posted that message earlier today. The turn up date? 1956. Go read the article for yourself:

http://www2.arrl.org/qst/2004/03/pasterna.pdf

Enjoy. I really don't mean to flame you, Larry, but I *DO* know what I'm talking about. I may just be a "lowly ham radio operator" to you, but I've been in radio for a very long time, and I make sure my facts are right on before I go making statements that I can't back up (which I'm not saying you're doing, I'm just stating where I'm coming from).

Post by **batdude** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:11 pm

d119, larry's observations and statements about ham radio are true.

your statements about the repeater system are correct - one of the few ham radio articles i have read in the last 10 years that i enjoyed.

the average age of the ham radio operator population is sky high.

it's not getting lower.

the "magic" of radio has been lost. it's no longer neat to have your voice heard on the other side of the city/county/state/country/world.

cell fones do that cheaper and better than ham radio.

my vhf and uhf repeaters are both mixed mode astro.

they kick ass.

i hear :o from analog users all the time.

think i care?

i heard there was a scanner guy in the county listening to us using one of the new uniden scanners.

guess what he hears when i flip the concentric switch?

doug

Post by **xmo** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:23 pm

Gentlemen - this thread started as an interesting discussion about the possibility of creating a 900 band Astro Spectra. It also explored the possibilities of moving these radios from band to band by exchanging boards and parts.

It has now deteriorated into a merits of ham radio debate - this sort of thing might be OK in the Lounge - but has no relevance to the subject at hand so Larry et al, in the future - if you have any comments of this nature please take them to the Lounge or some other venue and let this forum serve its intended technical purpose.

I'll refrain from locking this thread if we can return to technical inputs regarding the original discussion...

d119 · Post by **d119** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:35 pm

I digress and rest my case.

I also run P25 on the ham band (UHF). I hear you, batdude. The concentric switch IS a good thing.

73 ALL

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:25 pm

Has anyone upbanded an 800 ASTRO radio to 1296 MHz?

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:57 pm

Okay, so we've established that the analog RF board is not the same as its Astro counterpart. However, the same board is common for all three UHF splits, right?

What about the prefilter, VCO, and PA boards? What, if any, difference is there between the Astro and analog version of these? This post

xmo wrote:The difference between the analog Spectra RF board and the Astro Spectra RF board is that the Astro board has a different IF chip..

leads me to believe that the analog VCO is not going to work with the Astro RF board, but the prefilter and PA might. So let's say I take a Q-split VCO and instead of using a conductive pen to add to the laser-etched trace to push the frequency split down, I use a knife and remove some of it to push the frequency split up? Then I swap my non-Astro sensitive PA and prefilter and I should have a good radio after programming, right?

Which leads to my next question: instead of swapping codeplugs, could I tell my software that the Q-split goes all the way to 470 MHz, then realign the existing codeplug to work that high, or close to it? That way, you wouldn't need lab software.

If there's even the remotest possibility this may work, I'm willing to pony up the cash and give it a shot. I'm looking to go IMBE on the cheap, and Q-band IMBE stuff has been plentiful on Ebay as of late.

Post by **astroman** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:21 am

I have done the swap I had a Q version and wanted it to go to atleast 470
I took a analog Spectra and all that I did was put the RF Board and the Vocoder and logic board into the analog radio and had a friend bring the band split up with RSS and the radio worked great . That should be the only parts that you need to change to get it to work in 470 Split .

Cipher77 · Post by **Cipher77** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:42 pm

d119 wrote:I digress and rest my case.

I also run P25 on the ham band (UHF). I hear you, batdude. The concentric switch IS a good thing.

73 ALL

If you're referring to using crypto apco25 on amateur frequencies and boast about it, you should have your liscense yanked!!!! IF you remember taking your NO CODE exam, no radio traffic is to be encrypted or coded by ANY MEANS or to have the meaning of the traffic obscured from normal listening.

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:56 pm

oh yay, here comes the hammie repeater police.

where did he mention encryption? last time i checked the concentric switch could be programmed for ANY number of settings.

whats the old saying about assumptions?

refer to http://www.hamsexy.com for more information

tvsjr · Post by **tvsjr** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:56 pm

Uh-oh, everyone look out! It's a Kilocycle Cop! Run for your lives from the evil scourge of the Repeater Police!

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:01 pm

Cipher77 wrote:
d119 wrote:I digress and rest my case.

I also run P25 on the ham band (UHF). I hear you, batdude. The concentric switch IS a good thing.

73 ALL
If you're referring to using crypto apco25 on amateur frequencies and boast about it, you should have your liscense yanked!!!! IF you remember taking your NO CODE exam, no radio traffic is to be encrypted or coded by ANY MEANS or to have the meaning of the traffic obscured from normal listening.

oh and one other thing, if i make my key published and well known, DES is quite legal in the hammie band.. just because you dont have a keyloader and OFB radio doesnt mean jack.

Cipher77 · Post by **Cipher77** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:06 pm

batdude wrote:d119, larry's observations and statements about ham radio are true.

your statements about the repeater system are correct - one of the few ham radio articles i have read in the last 10 years that i enjoyed.

the average age of the ham radio operator population is sky high.

it's not getting lower.

the "magic" of radio has been lost. it's no longer neat to have your voice heard on the other side of the city/county/state/country/world

cell fones do that cheaper and better than ham radio.

my vhf and uhf repeaters are both mixed mode astro.

they kick ass.

i hear from analog users all the time.

think i care?

i heard there was a scanner guy in the county listening to us using one of the new uniden scanners.

guess what he hears when i flip the concentric switch?

doug

I'm sorry to say that I have made many friends that are hams in the last 20 years and several of them are Motorola employees (or are retired). All of the moto equipt. you buy/use was developed by HAMS working for Motorola. this includes ALL astro radios/repeaters and base stations. I personally know 2 people on the original team that developed VSELP. They're both hams. Look at all technologically driven companies. I will guarantee that you will find a negledgable presence of hams working and engineering for those companies.

PS as far as cellphones are concerned, AGAIN!!! If it wasn't for HAMS, the technology wouldn't have fourished. A very good friend of mine, a HAM, Has one of 2 original motorola portable cell phone prototypes that the frame was made out of wood and sheet metal in circa 1980. The US Patent office has the other one. Not to mention He was the developer of micro amplifier design that revolutionized cellphones. He has invented several things that lead to patents that are held by motorola. And AGAIN he is a ham and has been since he was 11 years old - some 40 years ago.

I'm sorry to say that If you think that HAMS haven't contributed to the advancement of technology, you're sadly mistaken or naive.

Cheers!!!

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:14 pm

as the old saying goes "what have they done for me lately"

sure hammies have made innovations in the past, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside... and just because a licensed amateur works in a technolgy field, that doesnt mean that "Ham Radio" made an innovation. If a ham is a woodworker and comes up with a great idea for a piece of furniture does that mean that Ham radio is responsible for it? Of course not, thats as assinine as your comparison

The fact remains that commercial radio technology (not to mention personal/consumer level communications technology) has far lapsed the great majority of what hams do. Sure there are exceptions, but for the most part ham radio has brought itself to a place where it leads, rather than follows technology.

lets look at ATV as an example, how long has the DVB standard been ratified, analog TV is on its way out and hams are JUST starting to experiment with DVB hammie TV. Dont get me started on Hammie data networks... a $40.00 2.4ghz wireless system (which has freqs in the ham band no less) can carry FAR more data than other hammie networks.. hell hams are modifying OFF THE SHELF gear, does that mean they are responsible for 2.4 WiFi?? nope.

the bottom line is that the digital age came and left the hammies in the dust.

Since you think we are all "naive" then show us just ONE example of ham radio technology that exceeds the technology of commercial equipment. And "joe hammie worked for moto and designed blah blah" doesnt count.

Cipher77 · Post by **Cipher77** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:22 pm

Well, I would kinda have to agree w/ you there BUT, this was before technology became a commercial affair, where mega amounts of $$$ could be made, this is where the "HAMS" ended up working for these companies & made the companies big $$$$ and the HAM employee was able to make a better than average living & be able to put is rugrats through college & have a decent retirement. SO I guess what I'm saying is that The big companies grabbed the title of "technology inventors" mosty at the HAM employees expense because it were HAMs that developed the technology for the tech companies.

Your point was well made!!!

)

CTAMontrose · Post by **CTAMontrose** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:24 pm

believe me, it bothers me that ham radio has become so lax.. it seems its no longer about trying something new, its just the old "call AES and put up and antenna" syndrome.

when the opportunity presented itself to play with Astro on the ham band, i jumped all over it.. now i have the opportunity to play with LTR on 927.. and of course with both im dealing with the hams that talk crap about it because its not "the way its done"

Post by **HumHead** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:00 pm

Holy cow, talk about digging up a dead horse just to beat it some more!

900Mhz Astro Spectra?

...

Analog to astro

Re: ...