ICOM started shipping D-STAR today in the US. Finally, an alternative to IMBE: AMBE 2020!
Yahoo!
D-STAR Now Shipping!
Moderator: Queue Moderator
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Still, $1300+ for the mobile and how much for the repeater?
Still better than buying a new astro spectra - that's for sure, but at the same time, I don't know how many people that I know are going to run out and spend $1300 on a radio so they can play at 1.2 ghz, that I would even want to talk to, let alone share a data connection with.
-Alex
Still better than buying a new astro spectra - that's for sure, but at the same time, I don't know how many people that I know are going to run out and spend $1300 on a radio so they can play at 1.2 ghz, that I would even want to talk to, let alone share a data connection with.
-Alex
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Yes, the ID-1 is a lot more pricey than your typical analog FM Ham radio, that's for sure. But, consider that you get AMBE which sounds 10 times better than the old IMBE, you have 128 kb/s data connected to the Internet, and you auto register with any D-STAR repeater that your mobile is in range of, so that you have instant digital access to any other D-STAR user in the world. I've talked on it, as well as Echolink and IRLP stuff. The difference is absolutely dramatic, as you are 100% digital end-to-end with D-STAR. No analog is involved with D-STAR, unlike the old fashioned Echolink and/or IRLP. And no horrible delay and crummy sounding audio like they have, either.
It won't be long before some Ham connects their MW-800 to their ID-1. You'll simply glance at your MW-800 screen and you'll see all of the D-STAR repeaters around the world, and by selecting any one or more of these, you will be instantly connected, with end-to-end AMBE, and no analog FM garbage.
Let’s compare prices. A new ID-1 lists at $1,300 (I expect these prices will soon dramatically fall) that has AMBE with HSD. In the meantime, you also have a 128 kb/s connection to the Internet. An XTL5000 lists at $5,600 equipped (Conventional), with old fashioned IMBE and a max data speed of 19.2 kb/s, best case. A decent used XTL5000 is close to $2,000, equipped. I don't know what a used ID-1 will go for.
If you don't want to go up to 1.2 GHz in order to have HSD, keep in mind that ICOM's dual bander AMBE radio, the ID-800, is expected to be released very soon. This radio will include 2M and 440, running 50 watts on both bands, with AMBE, and simultaneous 2400 bps digital data (no HSD, though). It's list price in Japan is currently $767 USD. Obviously, street price should be less than list. Not bad for a dual band 50 watt AMBE rig.
Don't forget that ICOM will soon be releasing 2M and 440 AMBE portables, similar to the U1 and V1 in Japan. The 1.2 GHz, 440, and 2M D-STAR repeaters are also soon to be released, along with ICOM's 10 GHz digital microwave sytem that provides an alternative for a 10 Mb/s ATM backbone, just in case the repeater site does not have DSL or cable access.
When the 1.2 GHz D-STAR repeater was initially listed in the AES catalog a year or so ago, it looked to be around $4k, or so, with the controller and digital voice and HSD boxes (twin 1.2 GHz antennas and filters/duplexers not included). It then dissappeared from the catalog. Who knows what the real price will be, but it looks like it will be very reasonable.
Do the math. I don't see where the ID-1, nor the ID-800, are priced out of line. In fact, they seemed to be priced at a very reasonable level, considering their awesome capabilities. It will ultimately be up to the marketplace to decide if Hams will embrace this new technology. I sure hope they do!
It won't be long before some Ham connects their MW-800 to their ID-1. You'll simply glance at your MW-800 screen and you'll see all of the D-STAR repeaters around the world, and by selecting any one or more of these, you will be instantly connected, with end-to-end AMBE, and no analog FM garbage.
Let’s compare prices. A new ID-1 lists at $1,300 (I expect these prices will soon dramatically fall) that has AMBE with HSD. In the meantime, you also have a 128 kb/s connection to the Internet. An XTL5000 lists at $5,600 equipped (Conventional), with old fashioned IMBE and a max data speed of 19.2 kb/s, best case. A decent used XTL5000 is close to $2,000, equipped. I don't know what a used ID-1 will go for.
If you don't want to go up to 1.2 GHz in order to have HSD, keep in mind that ICOM's dual bander AMBE radio, the ID-800, is expected to be released very soon. This radio will include 2M and 440, running 50 watts on both bands, with AMBE, and simultaneous 2400 bps digital data (no HSD, though). It's list price in Japan is currently $767 USD. Obviously, street price should be less than list. Not bad for a dual band 50 watt AMBE rig.
Don't forget that ICOM will soon be releasing 2M and 440 AMBE portables, similar to the U1 and V1 in Japan. The 1.2 GHz, 440, and 2M D-STAR repeaters are also soon to be released, along with ICOM's 10 GHz digital microwave sytem that provides an alternative for a 10 Mb/s ATM backbone, just in case the repeater site does not have DSL or cable access.
When the 1.2 GHz D-STAR repeater was initially listed in the AES catalog a year or so ago, it looked to be around $4k, or so, with the controller and digital voice and HSD boxes (twin 1.2 GHz antennas and filters/duplexers not included). It then dissappeared from the catalog. Who knows what the real price will be, but it looks like it will be very reasonable.
Do the math. I don't see where the ID-1, nor the ID-800, are priced out of line. In fact, they seemed to be priced at a very reasonable level, considering their awesome capabilities. It will ultimately be up to the marketplace to decide if Hams will embrace this new technology. I sure hope they do!
OK... my cat blew away the first version of this post... here's plan B.
I guess I'm looking at the average ham radio person that I've come across.
Most of them complain about the fact that they can't run a repeater with tone squelch because the people in their club have HT's that don't transmit tone. They are too cheap to buy something that has new technology.... When they do... the'll buy the radio that does PL, but lacks the ability to do DPL. So, lets now run out and buy $1300+ mobiles and talk to the 2-3-4 other people in our area who have one of these, and can't talk to anyone else because they haven't released the repeater to the public yet.
So, lets look at the average radio club. How many of these ham radio clubs are going to be able to afford getting these D* repeaters? Many of them rely on their membership to provide parts, maintain and build repeaters, recievers, whatever they need. Now, they are going to run out and spend how much to buy a D* repeater, and maybe a ATM backbone node? Oh yeah, and when it doesn't work, they can't find a new tube and swap it out.
Please --- don't take this the wrong way --- I'm very much in support of the product. You get a lot for the price, and it's going to be a lot of fun to play with when it becomes somewhat prevelent. It is very cool technology that I wouldn't mind playing with myself. I think it's great to see people moving forward.
Larry - you have some excellent points - but people still can't personally afford a large scale investment that D* requires at this point to be a strong seller.
It's going to be very intersting to see - and I am going to be intersted to see how much it costs for one of these repeaters. I can't see it being cheap.
-Alex
I guess I'm looking at the average ham radio person that I've come across.
Most of them complain about the fact that they can't run a repeater with tone squelch because the people in their club have HT's that don't transmit tone. They are too cheap to buy something that has new technology.... When they do... the'll buy the radio that does PL, but lacks the ability to do DPL. So, lets now run out and buy $1300+ mobiles and talk to the 2-3-4 other people in our area who have one of these, and can't talk to anyone else because they haven't released the repeater to the public yet.
So, lets look at the average radio club. How many of these ham radio clubs are going to be able to afford getting these D* repeaters? Many of them rely on their membership to provide parts, maintain and build repeaters, recievers, whatever they need. Now, they are going to run out and spend how much to buy a D* repeater, and maybe a ATM backbone node? Oh yeah, and when it doesn't work, they can't find a new tube and swap it out.
Please --- don't take this the wrong way --- I'm very much in support of the product. You get a lot for the price, and it's going to be a lot of fun to play with when it becomes somewhat prevelent. It is very cool technology that I wouldn't mind playing with myself. I think it's great to see people moving forward.
Larry - you have some excellent points - but people still can't personally afford a large scale investment that D* requires at this point to be a strong seller.
It's going to be very intersting to see - and I am going to be intersted to see how much it costs for one of these repeaters. I can't see it being cheap.
-Alex
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
I expect that the D* rptr will be around $4k, since that is what the price was in the AES catalog before it was pulled. If that is the case, it will be quite reasonable, as the old ICOM Ham FM repeaters (long since discontinued) listed at around $3k 10 years ago, and they were analog beasts, with no HSD and no sophisticated controller like the D* rptr has.
...
it's just another (albeit - BETTER) digital standard to muck the waters up.
IMBE
Provoice
GMSK or whatever that Alinco used
now
D-star
D-star may well be shipping, but whoever at Icom decided it would be a good idea to release ANYTHING in 1.2g here in the states - is a moron.
they should have waited and went with a dual band mobile / portable.... they would have sold many more right from the start.
and...
no repeater??
then what the hell is the point?
again, a real marketing genius.
i agree with you larry - it has great potential - 100% digital end to end... AMBE codec (sooooo much better than IMBE).....but w/o hardware priced cheeeeep it's never going to get a foothold.
doug
IMBE
Provoice
GMSK or whatever that Alinco used
now
D-star
D-star may well be shipping, but whoever at Icom decided it would be a good idea to release ANYTHING in 1.2g here in the states - is a moron.
they should have waited and went with a dual band mobile / portable.... they would have sold many more right from the start.
and...
no repeater??
then what the hell is the point?
again, a real marketing genius.
i agree with you larry - it has great potential - 100% digital end to end... AMBE codec (sooooo much better than IMBE).....but w/o hardware priced cheeeeep it's never going to get a foothold.
doug
BRAVO MIKE JULIET ALPHA
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Doug said: "... whoever at Icom decided it would be a good idea to release ANYTHING in 1.2g here in the states - is a moron."
The reason for selecting the 1.2 GHz Ham band has nothing to do with a decision as to what band would be "nice." It was an absolute necessity for ICOM to use 1.2 GHz here (and in all other countries) because the channel assignments use 130 kHz due to the bandwidth requirement of the HSD. From a practical standpoint, it turns out that only the 1.2 GHz band typically has a sufficient amount of available bandwidth to be assigned for HSD use.
The 2M and 440 D* radios use only 6.25 kHz for their channel assignments, since they are also AMBE, but they have no HSD capabilities. However, they do support 2400 bps data operations with simulataneous digital voice. These radios will hopefully blow away the old Kenwood, now extremely dated, D700 APRS analog FM radios. ICOM's dealers D* ads in Japan are already showing a simultaneous APRS-like application, while the mic button is mashed down (something an analog FM beast APRS station can't do---it can only TX APRS packets when it is NOT transmitting analog voice).
The reason for selecting the 1.2 GHz Ham band has nothing to do with a decision as to what band would be "nice." It was an absolute necessity for ICOM to use 1.2 GHz here (and in all other countries) because the channel assignments use 130 kHz due to the bandwidth requirement of the HSD. From a practical standpoint, it turns out that only the 1.2 GHz band typically has a sufficient amount of available bandwidth to be assigned for HSD use.
The 2M and 440 D* radios use only 6.25 kHz for their channel assignments, since they are also AMBE, but they have no HSD capabilities. However, they do support 2400 bps data operations with simulataneous digital voice. These radios will hopefully blow away the old Kenwood, now extremely dated, D700 APRS analog FM radios. ICOM's dealers D* ads in Japan are already showing a simultaneous APRS-like application, while the mic button is mashed down (something an analog FM beast APRS station can't do---it can only TX APRS packets when it is NOT transmitting analog voice).