800MHz Astro and Rebanding

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:57 pm

I was curious,

If some of us have 800MHz astros to monitor local Pds and they eventually drop 15 MHz, will the astros need re-flashing? This might just apply to 3600 Baud CC but i'm not sure.

Fuel4300 · Post by **Fuel4300** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:29 pm

If your department is changing frequencies and it is still in the 800 MHz band you will not need to make any changes to the radio other than programming (so long it is the same type of system).

If they are changing to the 700 MHz band then you will need a whole new radio and at the moment only the XT5000 and XTL5000 are available in that band. Good news is that they also cover 800 MHz. Bad news is that there is no way program the radio for a trunked system without forced affiliation.

Also, you cannot change the band of a radio simply by flashing it. This would require a hardware change (new RF board) as well as software.

Mike

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:47 pm

Yeah,
The RF board makes sense. I will be monitoring Orange County,San Bernardino, and San Diego Counties. I'll just have to drop the CC's 15 MHz. This probably wont go into effect for a while though.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:03 pm

I was thinking that the XTS1500 and XTS2500 were "dual-banders" as well. I might be wrong.

Cam

Fuel4300 · Post by **Fuel4300** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:16 pm

Cam22 wrote:I was thinking that the XTS1500 and XTS2500 were "dual-banders" as well. I might be wrong.

Cam

You're right!

My fault. They slipped my mind.

Thanks,

Mike

Post by **batdude** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:31 pm

If some of us have 800MHz astros to monitor local Pds and they eventually drop 15 MHz

if you mean drop 15 Mhz as in go from 866 to 851, then your radio is fine.

however, your statement requires comment.

i think it's been made perfectly clear here on batboard that what you are doing is pretty much NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Unless you are an authorized user of a system, programming illigitimate/unauthorized radios onto anyones trunking system is a CRIME. You stand not only to have your radio inhibited (discussed in numerous threads here regardless of your ability to transmit on the system) - not to mention be prosecuted for the various anti-hacking laws now on the books.

re-iterated for the 10th time.

BUY A DIGITAL SCANNER. THEY WORK BETTER.

doug

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:35 pm

Hmm,
Sounds like a bad idea to even have for hobby listening. I'll skip that radio I guess.

Yeah, i'll just stick with my pro-96.

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:30 am

As part of the re-banding, trunked radios will require a new flash to be able to correctly decode the channel look-up table.

This has been discussed in the past that the NPSPAC channel plan and the 806-809/851-854 channels do not match 1 for 1. The whole 800 band has to be re-numbered and this is the reason why the radios need to be re-flashed. It's not as easy as just changing the cc's down 15MHz.

Post by **batdude** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:28 am

good point, mark.

i hadn't considered that, but it stands to reason since the radios only understand FCC channel #'s... not actual frequencies!

doug

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:33 am

Actually, it was once explained to me that the OSW does not designate frequencies by FCC Channel # but by multiples of an offset from a base frequency -- similarly to the way frequencies are designated in UHF trunking, but in UHF trunking the base frequency and offset value have to be explicitly programmed into both the controller and the subscriber units, while in 800 trunking the values are fixed. I don't know if they are fixed in the firmware or the RSS/CPS; if the former, then every subscriber unit will have to be reflashed, and, presumably, non-flashable units (e.g., MT20000) will no longer work. In all that has been written about rebanding, I have yet to see this point explicitly addressed.

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:55 pm

Here is the rebanding & radio information right from Motorola:

http://www.motorola.com/cgiss/800reband ... 7_2005.pdf

Enjoy

carbineone · Post by **carbineone** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:43 pm

I guess now is the time to sell your 800 gear before the bottom drops out.

mr.syntrx · Post by **mr.syntrx** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:14 pm

Secondhand 800 gear seems to be fairly worthless as it is, with the huge amount of equipment already on the market.

BDB · Post by **BDB** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:33 pm

I wouldn't buy a scanner anytime soon either. Supposedly the newer models will be flash upgradeable but I wouldn't hold my breath. Even the first generation digital scanners (BC785 / BC250) won't work right with the new channel table. Of course EDACS and LTR aren't affected.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:20 pm

The PRO-96 is FLASH upgradeable. Much nicer radio than Uniden stuff, and it sounds as good as an XTL-5000, IMHO. Still $500, albeit everyone has been predicting it will go down in price.

BDB · Post by **BDB** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:38 pm

I did see that on another forum as well as the later uniden's having flash upgrades in the works. We will have to see. It is going to be interesting seeing this stuff pan out.

carbineone · Post by **carbineone** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:04 pm

Yeah I wonder how much the upgrade flash is going to cost for astro sabers and xts models .

BDB · Post by **BDB** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:29 pm

Without expense to the agency from what I understand.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:40 pm

In certain cases, NexTel may pay for some aspects of the rebanding costs for some public safety agencies under the terms of the agreement.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:28 pm

I have read the material to which KS4VT pointed us -- several times, in fact. I find it a bit confusing, and so any conclusions are uncertain. Nonetheless, it appears that for any transceiver capable of working on a given trunked system before rebanding, so long as the system after rebanding is confined to channels in the range of 853.5375 to 861.0125, no mods will be necessary and the radios will continue to work. This includes B and C model Spectras. Indeed, according to the chart, it would appear to include GTXs.

The interesting thing is that it appears that all radios will require either reflashing or replacement in order to employ the new NPSPAC channels in the 851-853 band, including conventional channels. Why this would be so is not immediately obvious.

To repeat, I'm sort of reading between the lines (to my mind, fuzzy lines); I'd be interested in what others say after studying the referenced material.

JohnG · Post by **JohnG** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:27 pm

The interesting thing is that it appears that all radios will require either reflashing or replacement in order to employ the new NPSPAC channels in the 851-853 band, including conventional channels. Why this would be so is not immediately obvious.

The requirement for reduced deviation on transmit that is currently present at 866-869 will exist at 851-854. The reflash is necessary so that the radios will reduce deviation in 851-854, while still using full deviation above 854.

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:42 am

This should end the confusion... The left column is the current 800 Channel Plan and the right one is the 800 Channel Plan once the re-banding is completed:

http://www.motorola.com/cgiss/800reband ... ndPlan.pdf

I'm showing the first 10 assignments below and have bolded the new NPSPAC channels that will be created in the 851-853 band that currently don't exist.

Current Plan---------------------------------- New Channel Plan
1 851.0125 806.0125 GC---- 1 851.0125 806.0125 NPSPAC - MA
2 851.0375 806.0375 GC---- 2 851.0375 806.0375 NPSPAC
3 851.0625 806.0625 GC---- 3 851.0500 806.0500 NPSPAC
4 851.0875 806.0875 GC---- 4 851.0625 806.0625 NPSPAC
5 851.1125 806.1125 GC---- 5 851.0750 806.0750 NPSPAC
6 851.1375 806.1375 GC---- 6 851.0875 806.0875 NPSPAC
7 851.1625 806.1625 GC---- 7 851.1000 806.1000 NPSPAC
8 851.1875 806.1875 GC---- 8 851.1125 806.1125 NPSPAC
9 851.2125 806.2125 GC---- 9 851.1250 806.1250 NPSPAC
10 851.2375 806.2375 GC---- 10 851.1375 806.1375 NPSPAC

chiefhal3 · Post by **chiefhal3** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:26 am

I have a question about the rebanding, perhaps someone else is facing this. One of the sysems I am on is a really old Type I, it will not beable to be updated so it will probably be replaced. My question is, are there still currently Type I systems available or will we be changing to a type II? I hope the later since I have some newer radios on other systems that I can't use on the Type I since they don't do true Type I.

TJP249 · Post by **TJP249** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:16 am

One thing to remember is the radio has to support BOTH bandplans at the same time, therefore allowing the subscriber to get re-flashed & programmed prior to the system. This will allow the subscriber to dynamically move from old to new. One issue that is being addressed by M is how to handle failsoft. They are looking at supporting two FS frequencies as well in each personality. This whole project is bound to give system admins a headache. Imagine in areas such as mine (Wash/Balt) where it is common to have 7 or more neighboring systems in your radio, and depending on them for mutual aid? The next few years will be interesting.

800MHz Astro and Rebanding

800MHz Astro and Rebanding

..

Rebanding not so bad??