Motorola GP68 and GP300. Please help, advice needed.

[lalaland]

Hi,

I have just bought a GP68 from Ebay to use when working with my mates who all use GP300.

They hire their GP300 units from a hire shop in the UK that won't tell me what frequency they are on as they want to make more money by hiring more units out instead of me and a few others using our own.

I am quite new to all this, but really need to use my GP68 to communicate with these people when we start work next month as we rely on them for security and backup reasons and to be without a radio would leave me in trouble.

My first idea was to get my mate to constantly broadcast on his GP300 and me to use the scanning feature on the GP68 to find the frequency. This isn't ideal though.

My second idea is to buy a frequency counter and hold it in front of him while he broadcasts and then enter this frequency in to my GP68 via the keypad. The only problem here is that the hire shop mentioned something about them using codes so that anyone else on that frequency can't hear them. I presume this is CTCSS and would mean I just have to try each CTCSS code one at a time? Are there any other codes and would I be wasting my time doing this?

My third idea came after seeing that both radios offer the option to radio clone. This sounds good, but I can't find any cable that allows me to clone from a GP300 to a GP68. Is this possible radio to radio without using a computer??

Could anyone answer the three questions above please and also provide any information they think is relevant to this, I'd really appreciate it.

I'm on UK time, so may not reply straight away.

Thanks

[Tom in D.C.]

You can only "clone" between two radios of the same exact model.

The GP68 radio is programmed from the keypad, whereas the GP300 is
programmed via software, called RSS.

Frequency counters used to be rare but not anymore in most places. There
must be someone who can help you with this but you may have to snoop
around to find him. On the CTCSS discovery, and on the entire frequency and
CTCSS question, the fastest and easiest way would be to have someone
read the program that is now in one of the GP300 radios. That would tell you
frequencies, both receive and transmit, as well as the CTCSS, which might be
DCS instead of CTCSS, by the way. If you do have to a CTCSS search it's
fairly easy to do; you just keep stepping up one tone at a time and keying the
GP300 until the GP300 opens up.

The hire shop is pulling your leg if indeed they said that the tones keep other
people from hearing the transmissions. The tones keep YOU from hearing
other people on the same channel who you don't want to hear them. Tones are NOT
needed to monitor an analog radio transmission, only to open up another
person's receiver when that person only wants to hear transmissions with
a certain tone attached to it.

Let us know how you progress with this project.

[Meridian]

Take one of your mates hired GP300 units down to the nearest /\/\otorola dealer and have them read it. In a flash they will be able to tell you what frequencies are programmed.

[lalaland]

Thanks for the responses.

I can get a frequency for about £50 and use that to try and find the frequency and it looks then like you've agreed that I just have to try each CTCSS tone. Are there only 38 of them?

I've seen in my GP68 manual that it mentions Digital PL tones, I presume that's the same as the digital tones that you are on about. If they are using these would it be a case of scrolling through them?

Could they use CTCSS and digital tones at the same time? (that would make a large combination)

As for the motorola programmer, the only one in my area is the hire shop and they aren't willing to tell us the frequency or the tones in use. The only thing they said was that it would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack because they use some tones on the frequency.

I will keep you posted on this and if anyone has any other suggestions please let me know.

Thanks

[va3wxm]

If I'm not mistaken I believe you can program separate tx TPL and rx DPL (or vice versa) on the GP300. That makes finding the tones by "trial and error" a bit more complicated but still not insurmountable.

Can you pull the battery off the hired GP300 and see the model number? That'll at least tell you the bandsplit of the radio. Or look at the antenna:

long and fat = VHF
short and fat = UHF
long and skinny = UHF

Still, the easiest thing would be to get ahold of a frequency counter and let it do its thing.

[Tom in D.C.]

The shop is lying to you. If they plug their programming rig into one of the
GP300s the computer screen will tell you everything you need to know about
each individual channel; frequency receive PL or DPL, transmit PL or DPL, etc.
Then all you need do is print the information out and you can set up your
GP68 properly. Insist that they read one of the GP300s and furnish you with
the printout. There is no big mystery to this situation; they just want to keep you
in the dark out of some kind of spite. Also, the GP68 you have doesn't need
any help from them so maybe that's a factor as well.

CTCSS and DPL are entirely separate things, though they are used for the
same exact purpose. There are more DPL setting than CTCSS, if I recall correctly, but it's the same trial and error process to search for them manually. The CTCSS
is an audio tone, whereas the DPL is an encoded number in digital format.

[lalaland]

If I'm not mistaken I believe you can program separate tx TPL and rx DPL (or vice versa) on the GP300. That makes finding the tones by "trial and error" a bit more complicated but still not insurmountable.

I presume you mean different send and receive here (I'm new to this)?

They aren't using a repeater or anything, just straight forward radios, so would they have a different send and receive frequency? I would have thought it would be the same?

Can you pull the battery off the hired GP300 and see the model number? That'll at least tell you the bandsplit of the radio. Or look at the antenna:

long and fat = VHF
short and fat = UHF
long and skinny = UHF

Still, the easiest thing would be to get ahold of a frequency counter and let it do its thing.

They are definatly the VHF type, not UHF. They insist on VHF as they appear to give better reception where we are working.

The frequency counter that I can afford will only tell me the frequency of the signal, it won't identify the CTCSS tones or anything, the one that does that is nearly £500 (about $950 - $1,000)! It's a shame though, that box of tricks would solve this dilema in one.

I think the only method I will be able to do is to use the counter to find the transmission frequency and then try each CTCSS tone at a time.

Could they use CTCSS and the DPL at the same time?

[lalaland]

The shop is lying to you. If they plug their programming rig into one of the
GP300s the computer screen will tell you everything you need to know about
each individual channel; frequency receive PL or DPL, transmit PL or DPL, etc.
Then all you need do is print the information out and you can set up your
GP68 properly. Insist that they read one of the GP300s and furnish you with
the printout. There is no big mystery to this situation; they just want to keep you
in the dark out of some kind of spite. Also, the GP68 you have doesn't need
any help from them so maybe that's a factor as well.

I know they have the ability to do this, but they are refusing to do so. They made an excuse about it being their frequency.

My mate says it's because they don't want some of us using our own units as they make more money if more of us rent from them. Makes sense, but it sucks...

CTCSS and DPL are entirely separate things, though they are used for the same exact purpose. There are more DPL setting than CTCSS, if I recall correctly, but it's the same trial and error process to search for them manually. The CTCSS
is an audio tone, whereas the DPL is an encoded number in digital format.

Unfortunatly I will have to check each one manually, but the worry I have is if they can use CTCSS and DPL at the same time. That would change a straight forward single tone in to a massive number of possible combinations and be almost impossible for me to work out.

[wa2zdy]

It's not likely they're using a separate tone for receive and transmit. In fact unless there are only two radios in use they can't use that setup. A repeater might use different tones but you've already said there's no repeater in use. And no, PL and DPL aren't used "at the same time." It's one or the other, except as I described above.

So finding the correct tone is hit or miss but not THAT time consuming. You could use the frequency counter attached to the audio output of your radio and if the radio lets enough of the tone pass you might get the frequency of the PL. That won't work with DPL though.

The shop is yanking your chain. You might consider taking your business elsewhere in the future.

[lalaland]

So finding the correct tone is hit or miss but not THAT time consuming. You could use the frequency counter attached to the audio output of your radio and if the radio lets enough of the tone pass you might get the frequency of the PL. That won't work with DPL though.

This sounds interesting, how would I do that?

The shop is yanking your chain. You might consider taking your business elsewhere in the future.

Unfortunatly they are the cheapest place by quite a bit, so my mates like using them for saving money. It's only a problem to those of us that have our own radios, but obviously if we were told the frequency used it may mean more people buy their own too and of course they lose money, but yes you are right, they are trying to take the mick here.

[Bikemedic]

I am not sure what the regulations are like in the UK, but when they said it was their frequncy, they may have been saying that they were licenced to use that frequency and you are not. I would check you local regulations to see if it is legal to use your radio on a frequency that they are licenced on without their permision.

[lalaland]

Just a thought, could I get a device similar to a cloning cable to read and display the settings?

It seems you can get cloning cables that require a PC and cables that don't. Is it possible to get something like the second cable, that doesn't require a PC, that has a display on it or something?

If not then surely this is an opening in the market?

[lalaland]

I found the hire companies frequencies listed online, but now I am confused.

They have 2 channels registered in their name, that's fair enough, but each channel has 2 frequencies.

When my mates hire the GP300 radios from this company they definatly do not use anything other than the radios, so does this mean they will only be using one frequency despite there being 2 listed?

e.g.

xxx.xxxxxx xxx.xxxxxx Ch1

xxx.xxxxxx xxx.xxxxxx Ch2

Sorry, I am new to this, hence the questions.

Thanks

[gp900]

Firstly, you are not legally allowed to use a GP68 in the UK on PBR Frequencies (which you will be doing) as it’s not type accepted. The hire company won't give you the frequencies as these are issued to them via OFCOM (UK government department) as a list of frequencies that all hire companies use for short term hire purposes. Where about in the UK are you? AS being an established radio dealer in NW I may be able to help you.

[lalaland]

Firstly, you are not legally allowed to use a GP68 in the UK on PBR Frequencies (which you will be doing) as it’s not type accepted.

Oh, I didn't realise that. What are PBR frequencies and what exactly is type accepted?

The hire company won't give you the frequencies as these are issued to them via OFCOM (UK government department) as a list of frequencies that all hire companies use for short term hire purposes.

I found their frequencies listed on a web site. They have two channels registered to them aparantly.
Also there's a book available in the UK which aparantly has all the frequencies registered listed. It's a new edition so it may be worth me buying.

Where about in the UK are you? AS being an established radio dealer in NW I may be able to help you.

Not sure that you can to be honest. I don't want to buy another radio as this one cost me £60 already, but thanks for the advice and thanks to everyone else as well. Most of my questions answered, so I am slightly less of a noob

[gp900]

The frequencies you found won't be the ones in the hired GP300's. They are likely used on a community repeater system or a regional trunked system that the radio shop runs. The frequencies that will be in your GP300's are called PBR (Private Business Radio) Hire Frequencies (these are actually all listed on OFCOM's website). Though it would be illegal for you to use these without the permission of a Licensed PBR Supplier, it has to be added to your hire schedule. Though you still won't be legally allowed to use your GP68.

[lalaland]

Is the GP68 illegal for use completely in the UK?

[gp900]

for comercial purposes on PBR frequencies yes.