Will XTS3000 UHF "S" Split cover Ham 440 Band?

cryptoman · Post by **cryptoman** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:39 pm

I know someone selling an XTS3000 model II in
the "S" UHF (450-512 MHz) split. If I can get
it for a good price, will consider buying it,
but have a question for the experts:

How far down out of band can these radios be
programmed? I would need to have coverage of
the entire 440 ham band. If this split don't
cover the ham band too well, I'll hold off and
look for an "R" split version.

-CM

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:46 pm

It will go down to low 430s.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:57 pm

Unless you undertake extensive modifications (definitely not worth it), the XTS-3000 450-512 model will fall off badly in sensitivity below about 442 MHz. The exciter and/or the PLL stage can also become unstable below this frequency. The receiver's front end has laser trimmed filters that have very sharp and steep skirts at the band edges (450 and 512), so the receiver's performance below 442 MHz is very bad. Yes, you can program it below 450 MHz and the receiver will "function," but you will definitely not meet specs, and it's performance will be severely degraded once you get below 450 MHz, especially at around 442 MHz, and below.

Get yourself a 403-470 version---you'll be glad you did.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:39 pm

hmm, mt XTS3K, MTS2000 S models both work just fine below 442,
at 441.95 my XTS RX sens is .23uV, TX a solid 4.02 watts.
at 440.125 RX sens measured .26uV, TX a solid 4.06 watts.
Freq error= none. TX deviation 4.38 wideband.

sounds like better than factory spec to me.

YMMV

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:09 am

Is it factory stock? If you are getting good results below 442 MHz, you're lucky and I'm glad for you. But, I'd say that's a rare find, or someone moded the radio, or both. This has been discussed many times before here on the Batboard, and the concensus is that the XTS3000 in the 450-512 split is a krap shoot as far as providing good sensitivity below 442 MHz.

My advice to him is to hold out for a 403-470 XTS3000, and he will enjoy great factory performance in the 440-450 Ham band, which I think he said was the primary purpose for his future radio. This range is certainly less popular and harder to find in the used market, but with some patience, he shouldn't have too much difficulty finding one. I imagine if he goes out and spends $1,000+, or so, for an IMBE equipped XTS3000 in the 450-512 range and then finds that he gets poor performance in the 442 and below section of the 440 Ham band, he might be a bit upset. Better to be safe than sorry, especially given that this 403-470 split XTS3000 definitely shows up on eBay.

No one wants to pay this kind of big $'s for a commercial radio that he intends to use for Ham purposes, and then have to settle for poor performance. Why take the chance on this as a result when he can ensure a great result by purchasing the radio in the proper split? And, who the heck wants to use an XTS3000 in the 470-512 range? He said it was for Ham use. Seems clear to me, but maybe he has a deal on a really cheap XTS that is priced so low that he wouldn't mind taking a chance.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:16 am

Larry, it's a factory XTS, basic flashcode conven only, with tags, circa 2001. AFAIK it is all original, haven't opened the radio or done anything special. No reason to, it works don't fix it. My MTS2000 was made in 1995, also all original, and it works fine on 441 as well.

I do agree the low split R version would be better. someone mentioned that the softpots aren't set and the PA bias might be high outside of the rated bandsplit which could lead to premature PA failure, especially in a HAM duty cycle (us gasbag hams and our 2 minute TOTs right).

The MTS2K is a beater and has been used regularly since I got it almost 5 years ago, no ill effects yet.

I would agree the guaranteed performance get a radio rated for the bandsplit. like with 900 meg Jedis, some work great some work half-ass some don't work at all.

ssybert · Post by **ssybert** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:30 am

I agree with ASTROMODAT. I had a 450-512 radio and I "knew better than everyone else" and programmed it down into ham. It took, and worked but not very well. It was miserable poor in the RX department. I'd hit repeaters DFQ and not even know I made it in at all. Go with the R split. You're better off.

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:03 pm

Also most radios will not work at on IMBE even as little as 1 or 2 mhz out of band. If your looking to hit those IMBE ham repeaters it will probably not work. My experience is from mobiles however so I cant speak on the xts3000 out of band on IMBE. I know that several people bought 450-482 astro spectras expecting to be able to do IMBE ham and they wont even though they work in analog.

Jason

Post by **batdude** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:01 pm

IMHO - it's hit and miss.

some radios work fine.

some don't.

(my experience based on xts 3000 / astro spectra mobiles)

mobiles cause lots more headaches than the portables when going out of band.... i've seen a 403-470 astro saber work BETTER than factory spec at 488 Mhz.... but that's just an example.

the 450-482 astro spectra mobiles must be bit banged with a new alignment channel in the ham band to work 100% below 450mhz... there are no rx or PA issues out of band... but for some reason w/o the bit banged change to the alignment freq... most of the time they just don't cut it....at least there's no hardware mods.

i'd be curious to hear from someone w/ a high split xts 5000 or XTL mobile how the software functions (allowing OOB freqs?) and general performance OOB....

what i never understood is why M didn't adapt the MCS 2k RF board for digital and give us a wide-spaced mobile w/ astro.... and that awesome LCD control head..... morons....

doug

cryptoman · Post by **cryptoman** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:54 pm

Thanks to everyone for all of the great info!

What it looks like it might come down to is what Larry said, I
might be able to get the radio for a good price.

The radio is in good shape overall. Here are some details on it:

Flash: 1400010000003
Q806/G806 IMBE / APCO-25 Digital Operation
H868/W969 Multikey Operation
H35/G48 Conventional Operation
Model: H09SDF9PW7BN
Serial: 620AZW----
Model II

My main question now is, how much is a radio like this worth?

If I get it and it doesn't work out for my needs, I'd like to
know what I would expect to be able to sell it for what I paid
and then pursue something else.

-CM