Can someone help find out if this radio has a 1MEG VOCON

Max · Post by **Max** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:25 am

Hi
I have recently bought a Astro Spectra 800MHz Smartzone Flash code
5000008-000000-1
The seller of this radio claims there is a 1MEG VOCON board in the
radio .The radio is programmed in the older DOS RSS and i do not have the newer CPS RSS,just so i can read it and conform that there is a 1MEG VOCON
board in the radio.I have been told that with CPS you will be able to
see if its a 512k or 1 meg,but you can not with DOS RSS.
Any chance someone has the CPS RSS,that i can send a copy of the
codeplug to to see what's in the radio.This has
become a big issue,because i think i was sold a radio that was claimed
by the seller to have a 1 meg in it. I have checked the part number of the board and its HLN6450E ,if i'm correct it should be HLN6450G the difference in the last letter.I have put the radio into Test Mode(sevice) by pressing the home button 5 times and no where does it say 512k,or 1Meg.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Max

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:57 am

Tell us what version HOST and DSP that radio has. Also , the CPS does not tell you the size of the VOCON, however it does give you the HOST, DSP, and CODEPLUG version if you just read it with the CPS. An emailed codeplug will not even carry that information.

Max · Post by **Max** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:02 am

Thats the problem,i do not have CPS for this radio,just the older DOS RSS
Max

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:05 am

Well the CPS isn't going to tell you the size of the vocon, that's what i'm saying. You can get the HOST and DSP, and usually the size of the vocon by hitting the home button 5 times within 10 seconds after the radio boots.

Post by **alex** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:15 am

If you load the archive in CPS or RSS (RSS, F3->F9 after reading the radio will tell you the HOST/DSP/Flash/Etc, but really, only after you read the radio).

IF someone save's it and then emails the archive, it will give you the flash and serial number of the radio it came out of, however, it will not give you host, dsp, or Vocon size.

-Alex

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:25 am

alex wrote:If you load the archive in CPS or RSS (RSS, F3->F9 after reading the radio will tell you the HOST/DSP/Flash/Etc, but really, only after you read the radio).

IF someone save's it and then emails the archive, it will give you the flash and serial number of the radio it came out of, however, it will not give you host, dsp, or Vocon size.

-Alex

Yeah, that's what i was trying to get at in my first post,but no where does the CPS tell you the size of the vocon. Typically we could guess depending upon the features loaded in the radio and the firmware and dsp versions.

Max · Post by **Max** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:42 am

Ok,i have read the radio,i think i have figured it out.
DSP-M05.00.18
Radio Software version-07.01.xx.xx
Flashcode-500008000000-1

If there is an *m* in the DSP,does that not mean its not Digital?
Max

Max · Post by **Max** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:48 am

Codeplug version-000b

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:56 am

yup. analog only. I wouldn't even worry about the vocon version anymore...

jmr061 · Post by **jmr061** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:33 am

Like your many other posts the vocon is M DSP which is analog only. You said in another post the vocon is revision E in the part number. That means it IS 1 MEG.

You need to have the board host/dsp upgraded to work with that flash, ie changed over to digital dsp.

Jason

USGOVTECH · Post by **USGOVTECH** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:49 am

The radio will do VSELP and not IMBE. Any 512 K board will do VSELP irregardless of DSP. Any 1 Meg Board will do VSELP or IMBE. A codeplug can be forcefed into the radio to get these options. Also for portables the following applies.

NTN7749 A,B,C,D,E are 512 K Vocoders

NTN7749 F,G,H and newer are 1 Meg

If the radio is a 512K it will not display 1 MEG. If it is a 1 MEG radio then the display will say "1 MEG"

astrofacts · Post by **astrofacts** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:03 am

USGOVTECH wrote:The radio will do VSELP and not IMBE. Any 512 K board will do VSELP irregardless of DSP. Any 1 Meg Board will do VSELP or IMBE. A codeplug can be forcefed into the radio to get these options. Also for portables the following applies.

That information is not correct.

The DSP FIRMWARE in the radio MUST support the codec that you want to use. Here are the facts:

DSP version 5.xx.xx is VSELP
DSP versions 6, 7 and 8 are IMBE.

If the revision letter is A or M, then the radio CANNOT DO EITHER codec. The firmware is ANALOG ONLY, regardless of what whored out codeplug you slam into the radio.

If the revision letter is I or N, then the radio will do digital--the flavour dependent on the version of DSP firmware installed.

Time for people to get a clue around here. Too many asshats who are posting information that is incorrect or just retarded. Examples:

- "CPS or RSS will show the vocon size" WRONG

- "You can't tell the vocon size blah blah"... You can find the vocon size by:

- Looking at the serial number. Radios with the 5th digit of the serial number including W or higher (and not all W's are 1-meg btw) are 1-MEG RADIOS. In 1996, Motorola started shipping with 1-meg vocons in sabers/spectras. Pre-W radios, including some W's, are 512K.

Dummy guide:

W=1996
X=1997
Y=1998
Z=1999
A=2000
B=2001
C=2002
D=2003

- Open up the damn radio and take a look at the vocon. Take a picture and post it, or count the number of FLASH chips. 3 FLASH chips = 512K, 2 FLASH chips = 1-meg... In 512K radios, there are 2x256K flash roms for the host, and 1 256K flash rom for the DSP. 1-meg radios have a 1MB flashrom for the host, and 1 256K flash rom for the DSP.

Thank you for reading!

USGOVTECH · Post by **USGOVTECH** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:17 am

No need to use foul language.

Ok tell me this then. You are incorrect. Case and point

This is interesting, you are not correct, a call to Motorola will diecredit some of your statements.

Here is the mobile Vocon Information

Again Irregardless of DSP.

HLN6458 A,B,C are 512K (Vselp Capable Only)
HLN6458 D,E,F,G and Newer are (IMBE and VSELP Capable)

Also tell me this. I just purchased 25 Motorola Astro Spectra UHF all with version M that all do VSELP ?? "AMR0604" and "M040310" How is this possible ?

Also according to Motorola the Flash Code determines if the radio is digital capable. If the 9th digit on the flashcode is not a 0 then the radio is not digital capable. The DSP according to Motorola has a minimal effect on the digital codec.

Post by **xmo** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:35 am

"...Again Irregardless of DSP.

HLN6458 A,B,C are 512K (Vselp Capable Only)
HLN6458 D,E,F,G and Newer are (IMBE and VSELP Capable..."

_________________________________________________

Incorrect.

The Firmware and DSP versions determine a radio's capabilities. Period.

The radio's Flashcode simply activates its features - makes them available to be programmed in the RSS or CPS- it is nothing more than a set of software flags. If you have an Analog DSP version, no Flashcode manipulation will make that radio do digital. If you have a VSELP DSP version, that radio won't do IMBE without a Flashport Firmware & DSP upgrade.

Normally the Flashcode and DSP versions cannot be mismatched because Motorola only shipped radios or Flash upgrade kits for radios, where the firmware version supports the features defined in the Flashcode.

Some folks in the field have circumvented this through unauthorized use of certain software such as Astro LAB and thereby created radios that have Flashcodes that imply a certain feature set that the radio's firmware will not support.

Anyone you would talk to on the phone at Motorola is not likely to know that such a bastardization is even possible, hence if you ask them, they will say that the Flashcode determines the capability, because that is true if the Flashcode was put in the radio properly by the Factory or by a Flash upgrade purchased from Motorola.

As to VOCON size. It is a fact that one meg VOCON can do analog only, VSELP, or IMBE - BUT - exactly what it can do depends on the DSP version that has been flashed into it.

USGOVTECH · Post by **USGOVTECH** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:19 pm

Ok I understand your information, however please explain why my radios with the M versions are able to talk VSELP.

I respect your information however these radios are proving otherwise. These radios were purchased in this configuration.

Post by **alex** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:30 pm

My guess:

They were properly setup and configured by the factory recently, using recent hardware. Since VSELP is not something that a lot of people order, it was probably one of those, well, we have this order for a customer, we have to fill it using current off the shelf stuff -

Thus, your boards working with VSELP.

Keep in mind - just because it hasn't been seen before - doesn't make it impossible.

-Alex

Post by **xmo** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:53 pm

Actually, the only real issue seems to be what the "M" DSP prefix implies. I think it has been generally accepted that the "I" prefix and the "N" prefix are digital capable and that the "A" prefix is analog.

I don't recall having seen the "M" prefix discussed here before but in any case, your information would confirm that the "M" prefix DSP is digital capable.

Perhaps the VSELP DSP's were A, I or M, and then when they changed to IMBE the letters are A, I and N.

From your information, it would then appear that the original poster, Max, has a digital capable radio - VSELP digital capable based on the version numbers.

Max, you should be able to verify that by the fact that the RSS will let you program digital channel information. You will know that the digital is VSELP if you cannot set a NAC because NAC is an IMBE capability.

The fact that the radio does not show its memory size during the test sequence is due to the old firmware. At the time it was written, there was only 512K, hence it doesn't report the memory size regardless of which size board it resides in.

Assuming that you want the radio to be IMBE, you would need a Flashport upgrade which would not need a new VOCON if yours is 1 meg.

Regarding your earlier question about the ebay VOCON swap - you can wind up with newer firmware & DSP versions by doing that but unless you are skilled in using those software tools that you are not supposed to have - you can't fix the serial number and Flashcode issues.

Because Motorola has been taking people to court for having things they are not supposed to have, you won't be getting a reply here with step by step instructions on how to deal with the software side of a VOCON swap / upgrade.

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:14 pm

astrofacts wrote:
USGOVTECH wrote:The radio will do VSELP and not IMBE. Any 512 K board will do VSELP irregardless of DSP. Any 1 Meg Board will do VSELP or IMBE. A codeplug can be forcefed into the radio to get these options. Also for portables the following applies.
That information is not correct.

The DSP FIRMWARE in the radio MUST support the codec that you want to use. Here are the facts:

DSP version 5.xx.xx is VSELP
DSP versions 6, 7 and 8 are IMBE.

If the revision letter is A or M, then the radio CANNOT DO EITHER codec. The firmware is ANALOG ONLY, regardless of what whored out codeplug you slam into the radio.

If the revision letter is I or N, then the radio will do digital--the flavour dependent on the version of DSP firmware installed.

Time for people to get a clue around here. Too many asshats who are posting information that is incorrect or just retarded. Examples:

- "CPS or RSS will show the vocon size" WRONG

- "You can't tell the vocon size blah blah"... You can find the vocon size by:

- Looking at the serial number. Radios with the 5th digit of the serial number including W or higher (and not all W's are 1-meg btw) are 1-MEG RADIOS. In 1996, Motorola started shipping with 1-meg vocons in sabers/spectras. Pre-W radios, including some W's, are 512K.

Dummy guide:

W=1996
X=1997
Y=1998
Z=1999
A=2000
B=2001
C=2002
D=2003

- Open up the damn radio and take a look at the vocon. Take a picture and post it, or count the number of FLASH chips. 3 FLASH chips = 512K, 2 FLASH chips = 1-meg... In 512K radios, there are 2x256K flash roms for the host, and 1 256K flash rom for the DSP. 1-meg radios have a 1MB flashrom for the host, and 1 256K flash rom for the DSP.

Thank you for reading!

somebody here doesn't want us to know who he or she is because they created the account astrofacts, posted, and then deleted the account..lol.

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:28 pm

xmo wrote:
Max, you should be able to verify that by the fact that the RSS will let you program digital channel information. You will know that the digital is VSELP if you cannot set a NAC because NAC is an IMBE capability.

Question,

If this was true, wouldn't the software have to know which version HOST AND DSP you have, or rather just DSP, in order to determine if it should present you with the options to configure a NAC? You can set up a NAC on a VSELP radio, but it won't work. Have you ever tried forcing an IMBE record into a VSELP only capable radio? The software will let you program D-CSQ and IMBE personalities all day long, but the radio does strange things when you key it up, mainly just put out no audio.

Either way, I don't think he's after VSELP so this isn't really an issue but really a different topic.

Victor Xray · Post by **Victor Xray** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:38 pm

compuman81 wrote:somebody here doesn't want us to know who he or she is because they created the account astrofacts, posted, and then deleted the account..lol.

Many of us know who that was and he didn't delete his account, he was booted... again.

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:44 pm

Oh yeah..... forgot about that.

Post by **alex** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:45 pm

Victor Xray wrote:
compuman81 wrote:somebody here doesn't want us to know who he or she is because they created the account astrofacts, posted, and then deleted the account..lol.
Many of us know who that was and he didn't delete his account, he was booted... again.

VX is correct, I didn't comment on it because it simply didn't need to be commented on. It was that individual, and he isn't welcome on this forum, for reasons that in that post are pretty evident (read that comment as it's an attidue problem).

-Alex

USGOVTECH · Post by **USGOVTECH** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:50 pm

Ok that sounds good. I have no interest in doing anything illegal to these radios, Some of them are VSELP with 512K vocon and some of them are IMBE with 1 MEG vocon. Thanks for the comments.

Post by **xmo** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:57 pm

"...Have you ever tried forcing an IMBE record into a VSELP only capable radio? The software will let you program D-CSQ and IMBE personalities all day long, ..."
__________________________________________________________

The fact that you can make all sorts of incompatible things happen when you bastardize a radio by "forcing" a codeplug into it that is incompatible with the radio's firmware simply reinforces my point

If a radio is legit, the host, DSP and Flashcode will all be compatible, and the RSS or CPS will NOT let you program features that don't work.

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:02 pm

xmo wrote:"...Have you ever tried forcing an IMBE record into a VSELP only capable radio? The software will let you program D-CSQ and IMBE personalities all day long, ..."
__________________________________________________________

The fact that you can make all sorts of incompatible things happen when you bastardize a radio by "forcing" a codeplug into it that is incompatible with the radio's firmware simply reinforces my point

If a radio is legit, the host, DSP and Flashcode will all be compatible, and the RSS or CPS will NOT let you program features that don't work.

Ok. good point. I was trying to refer back to the original post in this thread, lol...

He bought the radio on ebay and we all know about ebay motorola radios...we all know that there IS no way to know what you're getting until you get it, or the seller knows what he's talking about and is trustworthy and honest.

Its such a same that so many of these radios are sold as something they're not. There are a lot of people that DO know something about these radios, however they aren't honest and try to get away with more money than they should get for something they represent as an IMBE product.

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:59 pm

compuman81 wrote:Oh yeah..... forgot about that.

Really? According to your sig, you joined after he was banned...

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:07 pm

I know all about the whole thing. I was on here before that date, that's just for this username. Besides, plenty of distress and conflict can be found in old threads

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:39 pm

Thought I'd chime in... perhaps some clarity. and I'm almost completely ripped...

There are 4 versions of DSP
A
M
I
N

A and M are analog only DSP's.

I and N are digital. EITHER, IMBE or VSELP. For those that thing VSELP died after 5.0... you're only kidding yourself. An 8.xx DSP exists for VSELP. (M still has a VSELP customer ya know!!!) Good luck getting an upgrade for it... I only know it exists.

ANY 512K vocon has the potential for IMBE, period. Mobile or portable..

let's see.. what else....

jamming a codeplug has NOTHING to do with the Host /DSP. If the radio doesn't know how do do something (Analog only, lack of omnilink because of firmware / DSP) IT WON'T MATTER IF YOU PUT ANY CODEPLUG IN IT.

The Statement "any 512 will do vselp irregardless of DSP" is false. It has NO IDEA what digital is... unless the DSP is programmed for it.I 'll send you 2 A version 512's that are ignorant when it comes to digital, even with VSELP or IMBE codeplugs in them.

The next totally f'd up statement... "if the radio is 1meg, it will display 1MEG." FALSE! Some older version 1MEG radios wouldn't display it's board revision until at least host 5.x (I think that the revision... I'm on a rum buzz right now... hence this post to begin with)

THE ONLY 100% WAY TO VERIFY A 1MEG is to look at the DSP proms. (as previously decribed. I could switch labels all day long.. doesn't make it 1meg)

"a call to motorola" only flies with who's on the other end. ANY company has people that ought not be answering questions on the phone, M is no exception. The ONLY way to verify is to DO IT YOURSELF.

FLASHCODE HAS LIMITED MEANING YOU MORONS!!!! How many repetative posts does it take? A codeplug I've seen is maxed out (599108-1C5E00-x) and it doesn't allow you any access to the fields because it's a modified codeplug AND WON'T ALLOW you even ACCESS DIGITAL fields. Flashcode is a start, HOST/DSP are the most critical.

Ok.. good enough.. I have to piss...

tpg

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:59 pm

The Pager Geek wrote:
FLASHCODE HAS LIMITED MEANING YOU MORONS!!!! How many repetative posts does it take? A codeplug I've seen is maxed out (599108-1C5E00-x) and it doesn't allow you any access to the fields because it's a modified codeplug AND WON'T ALLOW you even ACCESS DIGITAL fields. Flashcode is a start, HOST/DSP are the most critical.

tpg

you're right in terms of what's important-whether or not the radio is actually going to do what you program it to do in the CPS, however

the cps doesn't give a damn what you configure as long as the codeplug that you're editing abides by the list of rules the CPS checks to see if any fields are invalid. If you email me a codeplug that has a whore flash, with IMBE CAI, my copy of the cps isn't going to know whether or not your radios's DSP /HOST has support for the flash, but I'm still going to be able to set up an IMBE Channel and configure a NAC

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:06 pm

CPS/RSS will only do as told by option bits in the codeplug. That's a COMPLETELY seperate thing. You can jam ANY codeplug in to ANY radio.. doesn't mean the radio can do it!

Even more bzzzzd tpg

compuman81 · Post by **compuman81** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:12 pm

Right,

I think we were thinking of different situations.

The reason i started down my path was because of this:

xmo wrote: Max, you should be able to verify that by the fact that the RSS will let you program digital channel information. You will know that the digital is VSELP if you cannot set a NAC because NAC is an IMBE capability.

Sorry for any confusion. I was just trying to explain that if the radio flash has the bit set for IMBE CAI, the software goes by that.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:18 pm

You are correct...

There's another rum bottle around here somewhere.....

Any other questions while I'm not in my normal anti-social self?

Post by **akardam** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:53 pm

The Pager Geek wrote:Any other questions while I'm not in my normal anti-social self?

Yes. What is the carrying capacity of an unladen European swallow?

Motofanatic · Post by **Motofanatic** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:03 am

Max wrote:Ok,i have read the radio,i think i have figured it out.
DSP-M05.00.18
Radio Software version-07.01.xx.xx
Flashcode-500008000000-1

If there is an *m* in the DSP,does that not mean its not Digital?
Max

You have a non-IMBE Host/DSP. That means it can either be analog (high probability) or VSELP (not too likely but a possibility).

As you've read, the flashcode means nothing. And given the fact the flashcode is indicating Q806 (CAI-IMBE), you can be assured that you have a hacked codeplug.

Also as you've read, the only way to see if you have 512K or 1Meg is to pull the vocon out and physically examine it. However, if you want a datapoint, that Host/DSP combo came out when only the 512K vocons were around. So if you're a gambling man and want to take odds, there's a 51/49 chance you've got a 512K in there.

TPG, I missed the party last nite. Sounds like there was some good booze in the house!

Can someone help find out if this radio has a 1MEG VOCON

Can someone help find out if this radio has a 1MEG VOCON

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