XTS3000 upgrade to a XTS5000

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:03 am

Good day everyone. It has been a while since i have been here.
In our department we carry all have the XTS3000 we we are switching to the Xts5000. But the volunteer search and rescue guys have to buy there own radios. So does anyone know if the XTS3000 can be upgraded to the XTS5000 and how much. Would i be loosing any features by doing a board upgrade. Is it even possible. Is it cost effective. Since I have to present this tonight at a meeting. Thank you for all your help in advance.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:06 am

Its a whole different beast.
Completely new platform.
Ask the local Mot rep for an upgrade quote is the easiest.
They will trade in your old radios (smash them) and give you new ones.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:36 am

Thats what i was thinking but I am also bieng told that the upgrade is around $2400 plus labor. It seems that no one really know so i am here to ask everyone elses opinon.. Thanks

Post by **alex** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:41 am

Is there a specific reason for the upgrade? If they are just upgrading to upgrade (since the XTS3000 product line was canceled (I think)) then there probably is no specific need for you to change your radio's.

I would first look in to why this is happening, and provide us with some more detail.

Someone here can then tell you if you just need some software adjustments as opposed to buying all new hardware, plus spending the same amount of money to get your radios flashed up to whatever it is they are using.

So, you could be looking at a $800 software option per radio - as opposed to a $4000/radio cost.

It's not the best in the world, but it's better than the 55 gallon drum of KY you'd probably need if you were to shell out the 4k/radio.

Some newer features may require the actual hardware platform change, but see what it is first.

-Alex

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:55 am

the reason for the upgrade is for the frequency change. They are moving from 800mhz to 700mhz. My understanding is that is due to the Nextel problem. Also I know within the next 18 month they are doing a re-freq. They told me one day i will wake up and my radio will not work unles i go in and get it re-programmed. I should have more answers tomorrow or late tonigh. Thank you for everyones input..

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:59 am

If you get your radio flashed to the latest and greatest firmware (about $75) it will do the rebanding

Post by **alex** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:08 pm

Yeah, I'd start putting that previously mentioned barrel of KY on order then. I say that since 700 mhz is brought up - not just rebanding. If just rebanding, than you can re flash your firmware as Bruce stated.

You are going to want to explore a few options here. Read up on the knowledge base here to see estimated list prices (and discount rates are available, contact your sales rep for those...).

XTS1500
XTS2500
XTS5000

Are three of your options which support 700mhz. I am not sure off hand if there is a requirement if you use 700mhz - to use digital modulation, and/or trunking for better spectrum management.

Let's look at an XTS2500 Model II -just for reference:

H46UCF9PW6_N XTS 2500 764-870MHZ 1-3W 255-CHANNEL LIMITED KEYPAD $1,317.50

Q575 ENH: TRUNKING 3600 BAUD SOFTWARE LIMITED $1,423.75
Software Package Includes: 3600 Baud, SmartZone, OmniLink, ASTRO Digital CAI, & PTT-ID Display

H121 ADD: 806-870 MHZ DIPOLE (NAF5039A) $0.00
H371 ADD: ZONE OPERATION $0.00

RKN4105 CABLE- PROGRAMMING USB $225.00

That totals out (not including a charger/programming cable, software, etc.) to: $2,740.75.

For the sake of argument, lets say, you get a 20% discount based upon your organizations standing with Motorola: 2740.75 - 548.15 = $2192.60 each.

Not horrible. This also is me guessing that your using 3600 baud digital trunking .

So you can look at those pages, and play around with options, to get a guesstimate as to what you may pay.

Again, that's all information that's subject to change, your terms and agreements, all that other bs.

You should for those options, pay less than the list $2,740.75.

-Alex

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:16 pm

True!
Post your flash code as you may already have digital radios and wether or not the new system is SZ or SmartNet.
What will your ne w channels be? digital or analog
You may find it well cheap with just a firmware reflash.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:40 pm

I was also told that the new radios are about $5000 dollars. That hurts. Since everything is on smartzone i believe. All of our system is digital. I know the encryption cards are very costly also.
Here is my current flashcode 5000040000005

Originally we were told that we can get the upgrade from Motorola for about $500 now we are hearing so many different stories.
Thank you gentleman for all your help so far.

Post by **alex** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:45 pm

Do this for us:

If they have already purchased the 5000's, if you can get your hands on one, turn the radio off, and back on. Hit the 2nd button below the PTT 5 times.

List us everything you see on the screen (you can with hold the ESN and Serial number.).

If that is one of the radios that will need NO FURTHER upgrading when this goes live, we should be able to help point you to your options, as opposed to living with them telling you $5,000 a radio.

ALSO: Do the above on the XTS3000 that you have now. List all of that data.

-Alex

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:56 pm

Ok so you have a smartnet digital,
Thats a good start
Maybe you just have to flash to smartzone and youll be in buisness.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:57 pm

XTS 3000
R07.00.01
DSPN07.03.06
H09UCH9PW7BN
326AZY852
1MEG
Flsh 10000800000-0
RF TEST

What did i miss

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:06 pm

ok that one is SZ digital.
You just need a refresh to do 700 Mhz.
I think the current version is 7.25
and 8.03.03 for the DSP

As long as you dont need to go encrypted it will cost you about $75 for a reflash.

We will wait for the XTS5000 flash code to confirm.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:14 pm

I should be able to get that code tonight or tomorrow for sure.
WHo can do the reflash for $75. A while back I had to get my Spectra flashed from Smartnet to Smartzone and that cost $475. did i say that right.

Post by **alex** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:34 pm

Bruce1807 wrote:ok that one is SZ digital.
You just need a refresh to do 700 Mhz.
I think the current version is 7.25
and 8.03.03 for the DSP

As long as you dont need to go encrypted it will cost you about $75 for a reflash.

We will wait for the XTS5000 flash code to confirm.

Bruce -

Unless I'm reading it wrong - he's got a 3000 - which will only do 800mhz. If he JUST needs rebanding, then he is good with the flash upgrade. If they are in fact licensing and will be using 700mhz spectrum, it's my understanding he will have to upgrade to a newer XTS platform in order to move forward and have 700mhz capabilities.

-Alex

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:37 pm

Alex I believe you are correct. We are moving to the 700mhz. with in 24 month.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:56 pm

Your right Alex, I mixed the rebanding and the 700 Mhz up which have nothing to do with each other.
Ok he nedds an XTS1500/2500/5000 radios in the long term.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:08 pm

Bruce we are back to the begining

I think in the long term it will be better to get the XTS5000 then upgrade the XTS3000

Post by **alex** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:02 pm

ahbood wrote:I think in the long term it will be better to get the XTS5000 then upgrade the XTS3000

You don't have to buy XTS5000's.... as stated above - there are suitable radios that support the same feature set - but are less expensive than the 5000.

Let us know what the test mode (hitting button 5 times test) shows on the 5000's they have, and we'll move along from there.

-Alex

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:40 pm

I will get that for you tomorrow. Thank you so much for your help.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:20 pm

I have not had a chance to get the info from the XTS5000 yet but i did get a flashcode 5000080004828 does this help and does this flash say that the radio has the incription card.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:05 am

Q806 APCO 25 Digital CAI/IMBE Operation
H14 Digital ID Display
H38 SmartZone Operation
Q173 SmartZone OmniLink Operation
Q361 APCO 25 Digital 9600 Baud Trunking
Q446 Fireground Voice

In a nutshell SmartZone Astro 25 with digital id and fireground.

The fireground option only works on XTS2500 or the 5000

Post by **alex** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:46 am

If cost is an issue, and it seems to be - I would look at buying the XTS2500. You don't need anything as far as I can see that wouldn't work on the 2500 platform.

XTS5000's are going to be more expensive. *IF* your going to be using encryption, the XTS2500's support encryption, but only one algorithm from what I've read. I would get the XTS5000's in this case since they are a more flexable platform with respect to secure operations at this time. Plus, it has the concentric switch, which allows easy and logical switching between secure/insecure modes.

Keep in mind, Secure module will easily add about $700-$900 per radio, depending on the algorithms required.

Good hunting. I'd shoot for the XTS2500's - I think you'd be very happy with them, providing your not going to really use secure.

-Alex

(now where's my sales commission...)

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:44 am

Thank you for decoding that for me. They guy says it has the incription card in it also. So i have to get my hands on the radio in order to read it correct.

Post by **alex** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:59 am

You need to go through the hit the button 5x process, and list out all the spec's as shown on the screen as you did on the 3000.

This will give us all the information we need to know to help guide you towards what you need.

Without it - we are taking shots in the dark.

-Alex

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:32 am

thast what i thought so i will call the guy and try to get the radio in my hands and put it in test mode and I will post the numbers later when i get them..
Thank you so much for your help

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:43 am

Ok here is what i got out of the XTS5000 we have switched to. So lets see if the 3000 is upgradeable and feesable to do.

DSP 08.01.03
SECURE 05.05.02
KG1.DES.OFB
KG2.DES.XL
KG3.AES.256
Flashcode 580008.00048.2.0
Band 700/800

I know this has the encryption card

Thank you for all your help

Post by **akardam** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:05 pm

If memory serves you need a full blown XTS5000 to support AES256... so that alone would be the determining factor.

Buying a radio like that is going to run you upwards of 5 kilobucks.

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:16 pm

I know how much it cost.. Actually i can get an XTS500 model 2 for $3500
I just want to know if it is feesable to upgrade the xts3000 since we have 10 of them for iur search and rescue crew.

Post by **akardam** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:30 pm

Well, if you can get a XTS5000 as configured above for $3500, I want to talk to your dealer.

Short answer based on above requirements, no. XTS3k will not to the best of my knowledge support AES... it just doesn't have the processing power to cope.

Bruce1807 · Post by **Bruce1807** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:49 pm

3000 will not do AES

ahbood · Post by **ahbood** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:58 pm

Ok so I bought the XTS 5000 now i need an encryption card. I see them on Fleebay for $250.00 but i dont trust Fleebay. Any Ideas.

Thanks everyone for all your help

Post by **alex** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:10 pm

ahbood wrote:Ok so I bought the XTS 5000 now i need an encryption card. I see them on Fleebay for $250.00 but i dont trust Fleebay. Any Ideas.

Thanks everyone for all your help

Post a WTB in equipment for sale/wanted/trade. I wouldn't be surprised if someone here has one to sell....

-Alex

MattSR · Post by **MattSR** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:05 pm

akardam wrote:Well, if you can get a XTS5000 as configured above for $3500, I want to talk to your dealer.

Short answer based on above requirements, no. XTS3k will not to the best of my knowledge support AES... it just doesn't have the processing power to cope.

Secure processing is all offloaded to the UCM anyway - the host radio is irrelevant.

Anyway, XTS3k can do AES256 no worries. The following modules will do it....

NNTN4432 - AES-256
NNTN4433 - AES-256 DES-XL DES-OFB