My current employer purchased a ton of Astrotac receivers back in 1997, and recently a number of them have been failing whenever we plug into them for service.
When using Dos Ver 12.06 RSS on a Win 98 machine, I would go into the squelch alignment and then *Poof* System would fail and not come out of it.
This happened to me a few weeks ago, and it took a $1,300 repair at Moto to fix it. And again today another one has failed. What am I doing wrong here?
Thanks for any and all input
WEC
Astrotac Receivers dropping like flies
Moderator: Queue Moderator
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
..
10 year planned obsolescence power supply is working EXACTLY as designed
d
d
BRAVO MIKE JULIET ALPHA
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
-
Astro Spectra
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:00 pm
If it’s not the PSU card (easy to check by swapping) then it sounds like an EEPROM storage problem (Xicor 28C64 or similar if you don’t have the old NV SIMM). Try reading the CP and writing it back immediately before trying any changes. Works with old Sabers…
The EEPROM is actually socketed so you could burn some new ones based on a known good one to attempt a recovery. You'll need to alter the S/N which is also stored in it. This is only a nice to have and you could prove the problem out with a simple copy.
The EEPROM is actually socketed so you could burn some new ones based on a known good one to attempt a recovery. You'll need to alter the S/N which is also stored in it. This is only a nice to have and you could prove the problem out with a simple copy.
..
on a serious note - i seem to remember the "codeplug reconditioning" that used to be in the DOS RSS...
i'm didn't see it in the WINDOWS RSS (yes, RSS i said)... but i didn't spend a lot of time looking either.
any chance they are getting a shot of static or something while they are on the bench?
doug
i'm didn't see it in the WINDOWS RSS (yes, RSS i said)... but i didn't spend a lot of time looking either.
any chance they are getting a shot of static or something while they are on the bench?
doug
BRAVO MIKE JULIET ALPHA
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
-
Astro Spectra
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:00 pm
Good thinking that man! Yes it is still in RSS at least until 12.03.00
From the help file I quote (sorry if the cut and past is ugly):
On F2 - READ from device and F8 PROGRAM to device the RSS will check the device's EEPROM and determine whether or not it needs to be conditioned. If it needs conditioning, the RSS will prompt you.
Below is the help text for conditioning:
========================================
The process of additional conditioning is an enhanced version of conditioning
and must be performed.
Memory EEPROM IC (51-84293T01/T02/T03/T04) used in Quantar/Quantro/Data Base
Stations has been found susceptible to memory corruption in unused portions
of its memory. (The EEPROM IC is used to store codeplug data, alignment info,
and other operation parameters for the station.)
When EEPROM memory is corrupted and the station experiences a reset, the
overall memory IC checksum no longer is its expected value. This will
result in the station "Control Fail" red LED lighting, and the station
will not be operational. Only RSS communications will be possible.
The RSS attempts to correct this problem by conditioning the EEPROM.
Conditioning writes a specific pattern to the unused portion of the
EEPROM IC to prevent the memory corruption from occurring.
Whenever the user attempts to read or write codeplug data to or from the
station, the RSS checks the EEPROM to see if the EEPROM has been
conditioned. If it has NOT been conditioned, the RSS will present the user
with a screen explaining that the EEPROM needs conditioning.
The user should attempt to condition the EEPROM at this point.
In most cases, conditioning of the EEPROM will take less than 10 minutes.
The station will be access disabled during that time.
NOTE: It is important that there is a current archive of the station's
codeplug before continuing with the conditioning procedure!
Not having an archive of the codeplug would result in the user
having to manually re-enter all the customer codeplug data in the
event of a problem occurring while performing the conditioning.
The EEPROM conditioning only needs to be done once. After the EEPROM has
been conditioned, the RSS will no longer present the conditioning screen
to the user.
NOTE: When upgrading a station to newer version firmware and codeplug,
the RSS may inform the user that the codeplug needs to be
conditioned again, even though it had been previously
conditioned. This is normal and is required to condition any
new codeplug data sections added during the upgrade.
The station EEPROM may only be conditioned when the RSS is connected to the
RS-232 port on the front of the station. If the RSS is connected to the
rear port of the station, conditioning will not be attempted.
From the help file I quote (sorry if the cut and past is ugly):
On F2 - READ from device and F8 PROGRAM to device the RSS will check the device's EEPROM and determine whether or not it needs to be conditioned. If it needs conditioning, the RSS will prompt you.
Below is the help text for conditioning:
========================================
The process of additional conditioning is an enhanced version of conditioning
and must be performed.
Memory EEPROM IC (51-84293T01/T02/T03/T04) used in Quantar/Quantro/Data Base
Stations has been found susceptible to memory corruption in unused portions
of its memory. (The EEPROM IC is used to store codeplug data, alignment info,
and other operation parameters for the station.)
When EEPROM memory is corrupted and the station experiences a reset, the
overall memory IC checksum no longer is its expected value. This will
result in the station "Control Fail" red LED lighting, and the station
will not be operational. Only RSS communications will be possible.
The RSS attempts to correct this problem by conditioning the EEPROM.
Conditioning writes a specific pattern to the unused portion of the
EEPROM IC to prevent the memory corruption from occurring.
Whenever the user attempts to read or write codeplug data to or from the
station, the RSS checks the EEPROM to see if the EEPROM has been
conditioned. If it has NOT been conditioned, the RSS will present the user
with a screen explaining that the EEPROM needs conditioning.
The user should attempt to condition the EEPROM at this point.
In most cases, conditioning of the EEPROM will take less than 10 minutes.
The station will be access disabled during that time.
NOTE: It is important that there is a current archive of the station's
codeplug before continuing with the conditioning procedure!
Not having an archive of the codeplug would result in the user
having to manually re-enter all the customer codeplug data in the
event of a problem occurring while performing the conditioning.
The EEPROM conditioning only needs to be done once. After the EEPROM has
been conditioned, the RSS will no longer present the conditioning screen
to the user.
NOTE: When upgrading a station to newer version firmware and codeplug,
the RSS may inform the user that the codeplug needs to be
conditioned again, even though it had been previously
conditioned. This is normal and is required to condition any
new codeplug data sections added during the upgrade.
The station EEPROM may only be conditioned when the RSS is connected to the
RS-232 port on the front of the station. If the RSS is connected to the
rear port of the station, conditioning will not be attempted.
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
OK - I did some research and found that Motorola still offers the EEPROM, Part# 1584293T02 for $67.15.
Looking around I found a similar EEPROM from DigiKey for far less! AT28HC64B-12JU-ND for $4.52/ea – Minimum quantity order of 1.
Seeing that a new EEPROM can be purchased for relatively cheap, I am seriously looking into copying/burning my own EEPROM’s instead of getting “burned” with the Motorola flat rate.
I have some experience with this, but I am curious what gear you guys are using (if any) and what editor you use.
It’s time to keep some of these repairs in the shop!
-WEC
Note: If copying eeproms is against (M) policies and/or batlabs forum rules, I will remove this post voluntarily.
[edit: part number update to RoHS Compliant version]
Looking around I found a similar EEPROM from DigiKey for far less! AT28HC64B-12JU-ND for $4.52/ea – Minimum quantity order of 1.
Seeing that a new EEPROM can be purchased for relatively cheap, I am seriously looking into copying/burning my own EEPROM’s instead of getting “burned” with the Motorola flat rate.
I have some experience with this, but I am curious what gear you guys are using (if any) and what editor you use.
It’s time to keep some of these repairs in the shop!
-WEC
Note: If copying eeproms is against (M) policies and/or batlabs forum rules, I will remove this post voluntarily.
[edit: part number update to RoHS Compliant version]
Last edited by Wile E. Coyote on Tue May 08, 2007 5:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
The new EEPROMs would be for the third unit that failed the other day. I am looking at another $1,200 pricetag from Motorola to repair it. I would rather learn how to repair this issue in house instead of farming everything out like mother M would like us to do.
For the working units I am going to try the read/program trick and see if they need conditioning. I did download the latest windows version, but I am not sure if it has that capability. I know that in the DOS version it will pop-up automatically if needed. Either way I will experiment and see what turns up.
WEC
For the working units I am going to try the read/program trick and see if they need conditioning. I did download the latest windows version, but I am not sure if it has that capability. I know that in the DOS version it will pop-up automatically if needed. Either way I will experiment and see what turns up.
WEC
-
The Pager Geek
- Posts: 1250
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:31 pm
- What radios do you own?: Disney FRS
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
UPDATE
I tried reading/programming a receiver using the DOS RSS, and it did NOT ask me to condition the code plug. Looks like it has already been done a while ago. On to the next issue...
I found that the code plug EEPROM can be purchased from Motorola (not sure if it has residual programming on it) and installed/programmed using RSS. I hope this will do the trick!
Also, I learned that in my case I should only use the DOS version of RSS because the firmware I am using is too old to support the windows version. If I were to program an older Astro-Tac receiver with the windows program, it will most likely fail until programmed with a DOS archive. I love modern technology.
And, I found out that the newer EEPROM chips that they are shipping are made by Atmel. I am not sure if they are making a superior product, but I hope that they are less sensitive to failure like the Xicor seems to be (over time).
I am still thinking of getting a PROM reader/programmer so that I can verify if the new EEPROMS from Motorola have programming on them or not. If not, then it looks like the $3.80 Mouser chip will do the trick!
I hope that I am on the right track here. I will let you know how things work with the new chip.
WEC
PS - I am putting down 40% odds that the new chip will work as expected out of the box. Anyone care to wager?
I tried reading/programming a receiver using the DOS RSS, and it did NOT ask me to condition the code plug. Looks like it has already been done a while ago. On to the next issue...
I found that the code plug EEPROM can be purchased from Motorola (not sure if it has residual programming on it) and installed/programmed using RSS. I hope this will do the trick!
Also, I learned that in my case I should only use the DOS version of RSS because the firmware I am using is too old to support the windows version. If I were to program an older Astro-Tac receiver with the windows program, it will most likely fail until programmed with a DOS archive. I love modern technology.
And, I found out that the newer EEPROM chips that they are shipping are made by Atmel. I am not sure if they are making a superior product, but I hope that they are less sensitive to failure like the Xicor seems to be (over time).
I am still thinking of getting a PROM reader/programmer so that I can verify if the new EEPROMS from Motorola have programming on them or not. If not, then it looks like the $3.80 Mouser chip will do the trick!
I hope that I am on the right track here. I will let you know how things work with the new chip.
WEC
PS - I am putting down 40% odds that the new chip will work as expected out of the box. Anyone care to wager?
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
I would upgrade them, except we are running conventional only and it would not add any benefit except adding the ability to program/config in windows.
However you bring up an interesting point. Does motorola have a verson of firmware that they can sell me that will help fix the corruption problems and still be compatable with my board version?
Thanks for the idea. I think I will give them a call
As for the codeplug chip I ordered, it will be here on Monday. I will let you all know what happens!
WEC
However you bring up an interesting point. Does motorola have a verson of firmware that they can sell me that will help fix the corruption problems and still be compatable with my board version?
Thanks for the idea. I think I will give them a call
As for the codeplug chip I ordered, it will be here on Monday. I will let you all know what happens!
WEC
New firmware not always adds functionality but it irons out existing bugs.
For instance if you had a software subscription agreement you get all the upgrades.
Some of these have been in PSB's and so forth.
The firmware upgrades are not that costly. I would see what model your controller boards and wireline boards are and move that way.
For instance if you had a software subscription agreement you get all the upgrades.
Some of these have been in PSB's and so forth.
The firmware upgrades are not that costly. I would see what model your controller boards and wireline boards are and move that way.
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
UPDATE -
I received my EEPROM from Motorola today (Part# 1584293T02 for $67.15) and installed it into the receiver that was not working or communicating. After installing the chip, the station came up in a fail state as predicted by the Motorola service tech.
I hooked up my PC and tried to program it with an archive, and it came up right away saying that it needed to condition the EEPROM. I said yes. Shortly after that it said that the wildcard partition was corrupt and needed to be conditioned and that it would take a half hour to complete. Naturally I said #ell yeah! 1/2 Hour later I have a working Astro-tac receiver! YAY!
Next I will try to find out if an EEPROM purchased from another vendor will work.
Thanks for all the input guys!
~WEC
I received my EEPROM from Motorola today (Part# 1584293T02 for $67.15) and installed it into the receiver that was not working or communicating. After installing the chip, the station came up in a fail state as predicted by the Motorola service tech.
I hooked up my PC and tried to program it with an archive, and it came up right away saying that it needed to condition the EEPROM. I said yes. Shortly after that it said that the wildcard partition was corrupt and needed to be conditioned and that it would take a half hour to complete. Naturally I said #ell yeah! 1/2 Hour later I have a working Astro-tac receiver! YAY!
Next I will try to find out if an EEPROM purchased from another vendor will work.
Thanks for all the input guys!
~WEC
-
Wile E. Coyote
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:27 am
- What radios do you own?: The best that low bid can buy.
UPDATE-
I received a nearly identical chip from DigiKey today, and installed it into the AstroTac Receiver. The ONLY difference is that the Digikey chip is RoHS Compliant. The one from Motorola is not.
It worked perfectly!
Just for fun, lets compare the prices for the Atmel EEPROM 8K x 8. Part Number AT28HC64B:
Motorola part 5184293T02 = $79.00 List
Digikey part AT28HC64B-12JU-ND = $4.52 List
Multiply that over 20 receivers, that’s a savings of $1,489.60
Sorry Motorola
~WEC
I received a nearly identical chip from DigiKey today, and installed it into the AstroTac Receiver. The ONLY difference is that the Digikey chip is RoHS Compliant. The one from Motorola is not.
It worked perfectly!
Just for fun, lets compare the prices for the Atmel EEPROM 8K x 8. Part Number AT28HC64B:
Motorola part 5184293T02 = $79.00 List
Digikey part AT28HC64B-12JU-ND = $4.52 List
Multiply that over 20 receivers, that’s a savings of $1,489.60
Sorry Motorola
~WEC