George wrote:Escomm wrote:
The harm is that you've violated someone's copyright, prima facie. The harm comes by way of the statutory damages the copyright holder is entitled to because of this violation.
George's Reply:
First: Is there a statutory dollar amount assigned to this value? If so, what is it? I really want to know. It is $10,000 per violation? I don't know and am asking a question with no intent to insult.
The RIAA is asking for several thousand per song. What they will get in court is questionable. According to the
US Copyright Office the statutory damages appear to range from $200 to $150,000 per infringment, depending on intent.
Second: who is going to follow through on such a case? This is a case of how much time and money is a company like Motorola going to waste on something that is not supporting their current product line(s) that is paying their bills. Look, it's old technology, dead, not upgradeable and not causing pain to their sales staff. If the sales pukes are happy, nothing else matters. Isn't copyright violations a civil matter and as long as you keep your RSS to yourself, how is anyone going to investigate and start such a suit? After all, the RIAA goes after college kids that are downloading HUGE amounts of data and tracing such downloads. It's a matter of keeping your d@mn mouth shut.
Yes, Motorola will follow through on it, especially if the violation is egregious enough. As Stay-con noted, /\/\ appears to be going after one of their most notorious repeat offenders yet again. Regardless of whether they do take action though, the rights to them are reserved.
Think of it kind of like this-- if nobody prosecutes you for a crime, does that mean it's legal? Maybe that's a bad example, but it's similar enough to get my point across.
I am not so sure about that. This comes back to the risk verses reward values in the way business decisions are made. Look at the nature of the animal. Hasn't Motorola gone after individuals that upgraded radios by buying parts and reselling those radios at a profit on the open market against their current product lines? Again, pain to the sales pukes. That's just plain stupid on the seller's part.
How many times has someone's door been broken down by the batwing police department because they have a copy of P200 that someone at a shop gave them and the receiving individual did NOT sell it or give it away? I can't think of any instances.
Does not matter, and it's a red herring to bring it up. Motorola owns the rights and is the final arbiter in who can or cannot have rights to use the software. How Motorola elects to enforce their IP is their business.
George's Reply:
They are a large company with lots of product lines. That's nice. They may be making a profit. That's nicer. HOWEVER, their stock price SUCKS! Performance has NOT been there. I don't think they will go bankrupt, they may be acquired, but not bankrupt. Hey, I was one of those that said Lucent would never be bought, but look, the d@mn frogs from Alcatel bought it. I thought for sure the Federal Government would not allow it due to the number of telephone switches in government and military service and that well over half the telephone lines and trunks are switched by #5ESS. For that matter, Lucent has 80% of the PCS business. They let it go to the frogs. Unbelievable.
So if the stock price sucks and the company is still profitable... that makes it ripe for takeover, not bankruptcy. But the radio business is only a small sliver of the bigger Motorola pie. And still, it's irrelevant, because the rights will still exist and will still belong to Motorola, whoever the owner may be.
I don't see a need for reengineering to limit the radios to amateur use. Hell, amateur equipment goes into the commercial frequencies just fine now, so why limit commercial equipment? No point in it. And we know this MUST be true, just watch the latest Die Hard where Bruce Willis is using an amateur radio in the 144 or so range. (I think it was 144.37 but memory may fail.) But wait, this must mean he couldn't get a commercial license. Or maybe this was a protest against Motorola radios because the FRACKING Motorola Trunk System was down AGAIN, (or is it still?) like in Philadelphia. I don't know...but it was in a movie so it MUST be true.
You missed my point. You suggested legislating making the software available to amateurs, for amateur use. I pointed out the obvious flaws with the idea, most especially people who purport to be amateurs and then use the software for commercial purposes. So, you are in effect suggesting that the legislation be implemented to allow everyone access to the software for whatever purpose they desire. Whatever water the ham radio welfare argument held is thrown out the window as soon as the commercial use enters the equation.
Anyway, I think, and this is my unpaid opinion, (but I have helped attorneys make cases and do other legal sheeite for pay and I have lowered my car insurance costs as well as staying at a Holiday Inn over the weekend after being stuck in an airport due to stupid flight cancellations) amateurs will slide under the radar IF they keep their d@mn pie holes shut about what RSS they have.
I cannot disagree with this
Again, I support copyright law and the protection of the companies that made their investment in the products. I just don't think it's that big of an issue overall for pathetic two-peso amateurs with outdated equipment. On the other hand, maybe there needs to a sunset for the technology these laws are protecting. Maybe twenty years would be okay. Seriously, windows 98 is obsolete. How is it going to threaten Vista in any credible form than it already does sans a law to prevent such a situation. It's like saying my 48 Ford that uses gas you can't even get anymore poses a threat to my new Buick and GM as a manufacturer. Or for that matter, refarming has rendered non 12.5 radios obsolete due to rules changes. In a while they will no longer be usable. It won't matter and Motorola won't bother.
I don't disagree with you here, either. But this is really no different than publishers electing not to print books or release movies or music. Simply because these folks no longer elect to make their work publicly available does not entitle the public to free access.
Motorola could choose to continue selling the software, or they could cease sales and tell you to buy a new radio. It's their property, and they are within their rights to do this. Nothing short of changing the copyright code will change this.
As for obsolete equipment, it's a bad example to make a comparison to. The equipment you refer to has been made obsolete by legislation, whereas the software discussed in this thread has been made obsolete as a result of a business decision. Two completely separate beasts here.
I'm not suggesting anything, I'm asking questions.
