If not Motorola, then what would you buy?

[rescuer]

Hello,

I have been a Motorola fan for most of my life and dare say they have built some of the best radios around, and continue to make good stuff, but there comes a time when all things must come to an end.

By this I am talking about the need to update our radios to new narrowband capable, and will have to find a replacement to our current lineup of GM300/Maxtrac's and GP300's.

If you were in the market today for a new radio, what would you buy? I would like to see the PM/PR400 series or CDM series replace our current equipment but there is one thing I learned sometime ago: never purchase another radio in which you are unable to program yourself or have access to equipment to do so.

I have contacted Motorola in an attempt to purchase the software for the PM/PR400 and CDM series but all I get is a runaround.

The general requirements for us are:

Good quality
Wide-band and narrow-band capable
Ability to purchase programming software and cables
Good battery life
An alphanumeric display
More than 16 channels
A talkaround/direct feature
MDC-1200 ID is a big plus, although not 100% required
Ability to use dual heads on mobiles is a plus as well
Similar features between mobiles and portables

The radios will be used for a volunteer fire department that responds to roughly 100 fire calls a year. There will be a total of roughly 10 mobiles and 20 portables.

[bellersley]

Kenwood makes a pretty good LMR product. Their TK380 portable is every bit as rugged as most Motorola products (except the older stuff). Their mobiles are also fairly decent, and have a whole bunch of features.

[Astro Spectra]

Well much as I like Motorola if you have to go elsewhere it is hard to beat Icom on price and performance.

Our local search and rescue teams use the Icom IC-F121/221 Series for mobile:

http://www.icomamerica.com/products/lan ... efault.asp

These are not dual head - but for the price you can just install two of them.

For handhelds they use a slightly older version of the IC-F3G handhelds:

http://www.icomamerica.com/products/lan ... efault.asp

For outdoor use in rain we use aquabags on the handhelds to keep 'em dry. Never met a handheld yet that was really waterproof.

The IC-F33G are MDC 1200 compatible:

http://www.icomamerica.com/products/lan ... efault.asp

Some guys like the F50 but to my mind it's too small.


Look these radios, the handhelds particularly, are not the same as Motorola's tier 1 product like the XTL/XTS but software and cables are cheap easy to get and if you break a radio, well just get a new one.

I also have a soft spot for the old high end Kenwood mobiles like the TK-x90 series which did support dual heads but they have a limited tuning range. I don't know anything about their new replacement mobiles or handhelds.

[n1das]

If you were in the market today for a new radio, what would you buy?

I would lean toward Motorola but if I were forced to buy something other than Motorola, it would be ICOM. I already own some ICOM portables and mobiles (both amateur and commercial). I've also owned Kenwood (amateur and commercial) equipment in the past. I've phased out my Kenwood stuff over the years in favor of ICOM and Motorola. The only Kenwood equipment I have left are two UHF repeaters in service on GMRS. I also have a Yaesu (Vertex Standard) FT-60 handheld (2m/440 dual band) on amateur radio and this will likely be my LAST Yaesu handheld in favor of Icom and Motorola commercial equipment.

ICOM and Motorola have emerged as the only two vendors left on my "approved vendor list" when it comes to 2-way radio equipment.

[mr.syntrx]

The IC-F33G portables are fantastic little radios, and reasonably cheap too, as well as being MDC 1200 capable.

I also like the new Tait 8000 mobile radio line, but I'm not that much of a fan of their portables, with the exception of their P25 gear. I understand they are developing a new analog portable line though.

[Jim202]

Icom and Kenwood are good choices to look at other than the
old standby of Motorola. The software is lower in cost, easy
to obtain and no hassel.

Another choice is EF Johnson. Their mobiles and portables
are compatible with what your use to. The feds are buying
these radios in large numbers. They cost less than Motorola
and work the same. Many states are starting to buy them.
The 5100 portables are almost a look alike for the XTS5000
portable from Motorola. They use the same accessories.

All these company radios work well. Choose a model that fits
your needs. You have the same options in most cases of both
a front mount or a trunk mount installation. Power levels
may be some concern if your looking for high power.

It's not going to hurt in looking at other company radios.

If Motorola keeps going the way the trend seems to be
taking the company, they may be out of the public radio
field faster than many think.

Jim

[Tom in D.C.]

Don't overlook Vertex. Their new and improved line of
HTs and mobiles are pretty slick, IMHO. I've used their
VX900s for several years (that's their top line portable)
and find them easy to program and extremely reliable.
The improved versions of this HT are pretty small, will do
P25, MDC, etc. etc., and are programmable for narrow or
wideband use per channel. Much of the choice probably
comes down to your local dealer, how good his service is,
and how willing he is to deal on quantity pricing, but the
fact is that Vertex makes a very good product.

[Andreas]

Kenwood is a good choice.The new types are much more better than the old Kenwood radios.If you have luck,you can get the RSS for free from Kenwood directly.I know a dealer who gets the entire stuff for free.
The Tait TM8000 radios are very good mobiles too(like mr.syntrx said).
Easy to program and they have a good performance and durability.
The RSS is much more cheaper.

Andreas

[crazyboy]

If I HAD to goto something besides Motorola it would be Kenwood.

[Jim2121]

How about the 25 mile radios from "radio-shack"

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=69098
__________________________________________
LOL.............

[KitN1MCC]

i would say say vertex as well just some recent dealing with there marine line the hx370 they are a rugged lil radio

[w8cmi]

What do you guys think about MA/COM stuff?

At one time, GE was the hands-down runner up to Motorola.

GE > Ericsson/GE > Ericsson > ComNet/Ericsson > MA/COM

Just curious.

By the way, Vertex mobiles ROCK. I don't have any recent Kenwood or EFJ experience.

I hated the ICOM stuff we installed seven or eight years ago. Too Ham Radioish.

[Elroy Jetson]

I work as a radio tech/general-purpose engineer at a small but busy two-way radio shop.

We are an Icom dealer first and foremost. We also sell or have sold Kenwood, Vertex, Maxon, Midland, Relm, B-K, and Motorola Pro series equipment.

I find that I'm quite impressed with the current lineup of Icom radios and
would not hesitate to buy them.


As for Ericsson/GE/Comm-Net/Tyco/Macom/whatever-they're-called-at this-moment, some of their radios are quite nice. I've had plenty of time
to play with Jaguar 700Ps and 7100Ps and they're pretty impressive, for
the most part. But I have less than positive things to say about their
distribution system and dealer network, and would go out of my way to
NOT deal with them.

However, I have YET to be impressed by any of their radios that weren't top tier products. Their more affordable products seem to be very junky.


Elroy

[kt2728]

Kenwood 80 series portables and 60 series mobiles they are tough and feature packed for the buck. if you can afford it the 90 series,they are the way to go. the 90 series mobiles have several configuration options. ie dual band and dual head or both. my experience with icom and vertex is their lower end products are not rugged enough or not reliable enough. the higher end vertex stuff is decent equipment but a bit overpriced for what they are.

getting software for the icom vertex and kenwood radios will vary with the aditude(s) of your local dealer(s).

if you stay with mother moto you could setup a parts accout with motorola,then it is easy to purchase the cps.

just my $0.02 but i have caught the astro bug in a bad way...

good luck

kt

[MTS2000des]

90 series Kenwood (mobile and portable) are top notch public safety grade radios, very well endowed and expandable, on par with any high end Motorola analog (such as an MT/MTS2000) and lots of them out there.
Kenwood also has a wide variety of dealers at least around here (ATL) more than the other Japanese radios (though Icom is making way), Vertex being the weakest, most due to a poor manufacturer's rep in this area.

[bellersley]

The IC-F33G portables are fantastic little radios, and reasonably cheap too, as well as being MDC 1200 capable.

What are they like physically? Any picture I've ever seen of them makes them look like amateur gear. They have a pretty attractive feature set, and the price is great though!

[bellersley]

What do you guys think about MA/COM stuff?

I've not played with much of the newer gear. The newest I have is an LPE-200 ProVoice. I've got a bunch of other GE gear (mostly MPAs) and I can tell you that the MPA is hands down the best radio ever built, in terms of durability and ruggedness it beats any Motorola ever made. Almost every new radio made these days is too much like a toy.

[KitN1MCC]

vertex will e-mail you software

[mr.syntrx]

The IC-F33G portables are fantastic little radios, and reasonably cheap too, as well as being MDC 1200 capable.

What are they like physically? Any picture I've ever seen of them makes them look like amateur gear. They have a pretty attractive feature set, and the price is great though!

They're no ASTRO Saber, but they certainly feel a lot more solid than a Waris series radio etc, and they leave ham rigs in the dust. A large improvement over the IC-F30GT.

[Elroy Jetson]

I agree that the GE M-PA is one of the most solid radios ever made. So's the older M-PD, with the M-PD having substantially better rx audio. In fact, I'd say a good M-PD is on par with a Saber I for audio quality. Both are top notch, at the peak of audio quality in a portable radio product.

The M-PA's audio isn't quite a good but it's decent.

M-PAs and M-PDs are so rugged due to their die-cast aluminum front AND
rear housings. They're virtually armored. They have outstanding crush
resistance, but their SHOCK resistance is only fair. Hard mounting the
circuit boards to the frame ensures that maximum shock is transmitted
to the circuit board in the event it's dropped or struck. This is NOT
a good thing for delicate circuit boards.

The Jaguar/700P and 7100P suffer from rx audio quality issues which are
traceable to a speaker that just doesn't sound very good, and a plastic
housing that resonates too much. The cure is to apply an X of electrical
tape to the face of the speaker, which requires you to remove the speaker
from the housing temporarily. The tape mass-loads the speaker and
damps out harmonics in the cone, resulting in a less tinny and boxy
sound. Then the audio is quite good.

I never liked LPEs. They can't put out any volume with any clarity. If
you're trying to listen to one while driving down the road with the windows
open, forget it. It ain't gonna work.


CJ

[RADIOMAN2002]

Our department dropped Motorola about 5 years ago. After some pretty nasty firmware and RF problems(along with the display problems) with the 1550xls line of portables. Interesting though was that Motorola doesn't even make the radio, some Pacific Rim nation does. After 6 months of back and forth overseas, which had to happen in the middle of the night here, we said adios to Motorola and went Vertex. Much better radio, almost half the cost, and less problems with getting software, since we manage our own LTR systems.

[dittrimd]

Our department left Motorola for Vertex Portables VX-900U and Kenwood 90's series Mobiles. It has been 5 years now and other than a couple of knobs coming loose and coil cords getting streched out the radios have performed excellent. Combined with the way our volunteers treat the portables and you have a pretty good endorsement. For the fire service who operates in convention and in two different bands the 90 series radios are awesome. We have Kenwood TK-690's for our 33 meg ops and 890's for our 450 meg ops. We also have strapped Pyramid UHF repeaters for in vehicle repeating. The kenwoods have the ability to do dual band dual head options which make outfitting a fire truck with a pump panel a cinch! The 14 character display on the advanced head gives even the most basic operator a good indication of which channel they are on. Our local radio shop has been an excellent service provider and vertex has fixed all minor problems for no charge. In addition the cost to program both radios i.e. cables and software cost our department less than my Motorola RIB. Now that both Kenwood and Vertex have windows versions of their programming software it is very easy to program both radios. Personnaly I still maintain my own private collection of Motorola radios just because I have been with them since day one. But for any organization with money concerns these other manufacturers are the way to go. In addition it looks like they are catching up on the high end stuff as well.

Good luck,

Mark

[mike m]

I have a friend looking for some SAR 4X4 radios.

SPECS:
Band: VHF high band 150 to 156 MHz range. analog FM standard band, narrow capable would be nice but not needed.

Power: 50 watts will do, more is fine.
Options: Remote head capability
Alpha numeric display would be nice
Programming software and interface

Can some one give me some model numbers and pricing for some comparable radios with remote head and the programming package ?

Also if anyone can supply a dealer who can actually supply pricing, every dealer I find will not supply pricing it seems they want to sucker you in to them before they will give a price.

He is open to Moto, Kenwood, Icom, Vertex etc. but of course cost is a plus as is reliability, these radio are going to get knocked around on undeveloped roads in Northern Arizona.

Also a plus would be if any are FPP capabl even if they need to be set in software.

As I mentioned above He needs the Software/programming packages to program these and the cost of the software with the radio and a remote head is a definite plus in the decision.

If there are any region restrictions that apply for various manufacturers, then for information we are in Arizona.



Mike

[mr.syntrx]

Tait TM8115 with 100 channels and numeric display, or TM8250 with 1500 channels and alphanumeric display. No BS with software (anyone can buy the programming kit which includes cable and software), and they'll take a flogging in the desert quite happily (utilities and public safety in rural areas in Australia is one of Tait's largest markets.)

[mike m]

Yeah they look nice but where can you purchase them in the States without breaking a small SAR budget ?

[mr.syntrx]

Durham Communications in Mesa

http://www.dcicomm.com/

Otherwise, call Tait and ask
http://www.taitworld.com/main/index.cfm ... ml/Contact

[EngineerZ]

Tait TM8115 with 100 channels and numeric display, or TM8250 with 1500 channels and alphanumeric display. No BS with software (anyone can buy the programming kit which includes cable and software), and they'll take a flogging in the desert quite happily (utilities and public safety in rural areas in Australia is one of Tait's largest markets.)

I'll ditto that recommendation for Tait. I haven't completely given up on Motorola but I recently bought a couple of TM8110 radios and I'm really impressed with what I've seen so far. The programming software is really nice; pretty intuitive if you have any radio programming experience. The control head can be mounted on the radio in either direction (heat sink up or down) or with a remote mount kit. They do DTMF and GE-STAR signalling and I believe they have MDC 1200 as an option as well. And like Mr. Syntrx says, they are well-built, rugged radios.

On the trunked side, they are a major MPT1327 supplier.

The TM8000 series radios are really nice if you need to interface them to the outside world. They use a DB-15 for the accessory connector and you can tap and insert audio anywhere in both the transmit and receiver audo chains. (The audio connections are completely programmable.) Likewise, there are a bunch of general purpose I/O signals that can be programmed for PTT, COR, PL decode indication, ignition sense, etc. And if you're really serious about integration, Tait will even sell you a development kit for integrating your own board into their radio. The kit includes includes documentation of the radio's internal control protocols.

I haven't dug into Tait's base station / repeater units yet, but they too look pretty impressive. I've been told the high-end version runs an embedded Linux implementation and have complete remote diagnostics via an ethernet connection.

The bottom line is Tait has proven themselves down under in New Zealand and Australia and they are hungry for business in the US. They are a serious contender to Motorola and the other established LMR vendors in the US.

--z

[ffexpCP]

I just got a Relm PR3600A+. I picked up a UHF and a VHF one. So far so good. Durabillity so far seems good, at least for my use. And the receive is better than a MT1000 in the field. At first I had some problems with the tone decoding. It turns out I was using the tone timing from our old CentracomII console, Our new dispatch center sends the tones slightly longer and I din't know it.

I had a question and I called tech support. I got the switchboard and within a minuite got an engineer. We couldn't figure it out on the phone, so I sent him my programming file. Within the hour he called back along with his partner and we went through it step-by step. Verry impressed. I'm not a dealer, I'm not a huge agency that bought thousands of their product. I have 2 of their radios. They took time to talk to ME, the geeky end user. Oh, and the guys on the phone spoke ENGLISH!

Software was NO problem to get either.

I love the toys they pack in it for the price. I am VERY impressed so far.

[silverbk]

Look no further than the Vertex vx-4000 they are extreme;y rugged and do 50 watts and everything else you need including FPP
They are $425 new.

I have a friend looking for some SAR 4X4 radios.

SPECS:
Band: VHF high band 150 to 156 MHz range. analog FM standard band, narrow capable would be nice but not needed.

Power: 50 watts will do, more is fine.
Options: Remote head capability
Alpha numeric display would be nice
Programming software and interface

Can some one give me some model numbers and pricing for some comparable radios with remote head and the programming package ?

Also if anyone can supply a dealer who can actually supply pricing, every dealer I find will not supply pricing it seems they want to sucker you in to them before they will give a price.

He is open to Moto, Kenwood, Icom, Vertex etc. but of course cost is a plus as is reliability, these radio are going to get knocked around on undeveloped roads in Northern Arizona.

Also a plus would be if any are FPP capabl even if they need to be set in software.

As I mentioned above He needs the Software/programming packages to program these and the cost of the software with the radio and a remote head is a definite plus in the decision.

If there are any region restrictions that apply for various manufacturers, then for information we are in Arizona.



Mike

[silverbk]

I'm another Vertex and Icom fan having both in my arsenal.

The NYPD (largest PD in the world) has switched from Big M to Vertex. They seem to be very happy with the new radios.
The math works out to 1 Saber lost/destroyed ($3000 when new) to 10 Vertex vx-520 lost destroyed at $300 each.

FDNY and the MTA (subways) are also using Vertex in some capacity.

Plus Vertex will email you software, when Motorola won't even talk to you on the phone.

I am using the ICOM F121/221 series as an alternative to HAM rigs because of intermod and to build repeaters, which they are very well suited to.

[n1das]

If you were in the market today for a new radio, what would you buy?

I would lean toward Motorola but if I were forced to buy something other than Motorola, it would be ICOM. I already own some ICOM portables and mobiles (both amateur and commercial). I've also owned Kenwood (amateur and commercial) equipment in the past. I've phased out my Kenwood stuff over the years in favor of ICOM and Motorola. The only Kenwood equipment I have left are two UHF repeaters in service on GMRS. I also have a Yaesu (Vertex Standard) FT-60 handheld (2m/440 dual band) on amateur radio and this will likely be my LAST Yaesu handheld in favor of Icom and Motorola commercial equipment.

ICOM and Motorola have emerged as the only two vendors left on my "approved vendor list" when it comes to 2-way radio equipment.

ICOM and KENWOOD have been sort of leapfrogging over each other with product offerings over the last few years.

KENWOOD is now back on my "approved vendor list" due to some new portables and mobiles available. I recently picked up a pair of KENWOOD TK-3170 handhelds, UHF 450-490MHz, w/DTMF pad. They also work well in the 70cm ham band in the 440-450 range. I LOVE THEM!! They do everything I need and more. I no longer need my HT1250 portables and plan to get more KENWOOD TK-3170 portables in the future.

I'm currently on the fence regarding whether or not to sell my 3 Motorola HT1250 UHF portables (2 hi-split, 1 lo-split).

[firetech792]

Having worked in public safety communications over the past 16 years, I've noticed some local gov'ts & police agencies slowly steering away from Motorola.

[bilat]

I've owned a good deal of motorola radios in my lifetime. Saber 1, 2, 3, Astro Saber 1, 2, HT1000, MT2000, MTS2000, Visar, and XTS3000 just to name a few. Just within the last 2 year I picked a VX800 being my very first Vertex radio. I was so impressed that a year after that I accquired a VX920, VX210, and a VX 537. I love my vertex collection! The 920 has become my everyday portable. It does it all.. 500 channel memory, UHF TX w/ VHF RX, nice loud audio and all the bells and whistles. The price is definately a lot less than what I would pay for a motorola and I think you get more bang for the buck.

[RADIO]

i know i am the new guy but to tell you all the truth i love the vertex radios i got 3 of them and erik mts2000des knows i wouldn't trade them for another radio. solid and easy to use just my 2 cents from the new guy

[aaknitt]

I just got a Relm PR3600A+. I picked up a UHF and a VHF one. So far so good. Durabillity so far seems good, at least for my use. And the receive is better than a MT1000 in the field. ...............
I love the toys they pack in it for the price. I am VERY impressed so far.

I've been looking at that radio closely as a possible contender for our department. One thing that concerns me is the small size. Great for using it as a pager, but can you operate the radio with fire gloves on? I have the same question about the Icom F50 and other small radios. Any thoughts?

Andy