Has anyone experienced any lock up problems with their ML900s?
We have 14 ML900s here with nine of them being bought at the same time. Two of that nine, had lockup problems for us right out of the box. The will intermittently lockup anywhere from a few minutes to a few days of running. We then had two units, which previously had worked for months without locking up, start locking up after going in to the depot for other repairs. In both cases the depot replaced the Motherboard. It seems obvious to me that there is some driver that needs to match up to differing hardware in these replacement motherboards (and probably the two originals as well), but Motorola hasn't been able to identify the problem.
Has anyone else seen anything like this?
ML900 Lockup Problem
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Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
I suspect a thermal issue... processor is getting too hot and taking the system down. Likely due to some poor reinstall skills.
My MW800 does the same thing... wont even get through BIOS POST. Gotta go home to Mother.
My MW800 does the same thing... wont even get through BIOS POST. Gotta go home to Mother.
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Batwings21
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:21 am
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
Are you using mid teir docks with the usb network adapter? If so there is an issue with docks w network adapters and some driver versions. Motorola is aware and should be able to send you updated drivers. Maybe when they went to the depot they reimaged the drive with improper drivers. Also if the hard drive heaters are turned on in the bios, certain keyboard bios versions can cause problems ranginf from jumpy touchpads to unit not booting up and showing the hdd heater is active even though its 80 degree's outside.
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
My very first suspicion was a thermal problem. I used a thermal monitoring program that could read the microprocessor temp sensor, but it wasn't approaching maximum temperature. Also, I have had these systems lock up cold shortly after power up were the temperature had only raised up a couple of degrees C.
As far as docking stations go, we actually don't use any at all. We could really use the office port replicator, but at $600 each we can't quite justify it. I sort of think we are unique in that respect to a lot of the customer base for this product. I think most ML900s probably spend as much or more time docked than undocked.
Motorola has tried sending us some different BIOS revisions which has not proved to make a difference.
Does docking a computer disable some hardware/drivers? I wonder if there would be hardware that gets disabled when docked, so if it had a problem driver it wouldn't show up on system that are docked all or part of the time?
As far as docking stations go, we actually don't use any at all. We could really use the office port replicator, but at $600 each we can't quite justify it. I sort of think we are unique in that respect to a lot of the customer base for this product. I think most ML900s probably spend as much or more time docked than undocked.
Motorola has tried sending us some different BIOS revisions which has not proved to make a difference.
Does docking a computer disable some hardware/drivers? I wonder if there would be hardware that gets disabled when docked, so if it had a problem driver it wouldn't show up on system that are docked all or part of the time?
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Batwings21
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:21 am
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
I'm not aware of anything that is shut off when docked, when it locks up what happens? Is it a blue screen?
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
Nope no blue screen.
The system just outwardly appears to stop responding. The mouse pointer will not move, ctl-alt-del has no effect, the hard drive light doesn't ever flicker, etc.
My very first instinct was to say it is a memory issue. I have run a couple of different extensive memory tests and I don't get any failures. I swapped memory with another Laptop and the problem system still locks up. I bought a new set of memory modules and tried them, and it still locks up.
I did set the debug switch in the boot.ini file, so that I could connect another PC through the serial port running the microsoft debugger. When the system locked up the next time, I was able to discover that the debugger could still talk to the system. I was able to get a complete memory dump. The consistent thing I was able to learn from the memory dump was that drivers for USB were always left on the stack: "usbehci.sys ( usbehci!EHCI_AsyncCacheFlush+12c )". I have been able to connect the debug to two different ML900 under lockup several times and they always have that driver left on the kernel stack. If I just randomly grab the stack on a ML900 that is not locked up, I have not captured that on the stack (I was making sure that the USB driver wasn't something that was going on and off the stack 500 times a minute and the odds were that you would always find it there.) I fed this information back to Motorola and they have not responded with anything for me yet.
The thing that puzzles me is that Motorola tells us they have not seen this as a common problem. We have 4 systems that have this problem. With just those two facts I would say it would have to be something we are doing wrong. I done a lot of testing and can't find anywhere I can determine that I am going wrong, but I am always willing to back up and challenge my assumptions. The one thing I know is that I have two computers that didn't lockup, I send them in to the depot to repair an unrelated item, the motherboard is replaced, and when they come back they start locking up. This really makes me think that something is different on the motherboard, like a different revision of some hardware, that now needs a different driver installed. Motorola hasn't been able to indentify for me any drivers that would have changed.
At this point my boss is ready to just toss $40,000 worth of still under warranty Motorola's into the trash and go buy Dell ATGs!
The system just outwardly appears to stop responding. The mouse pointer will not move, ctl-alt-del has no effect, the hard drive light doesn't ever flicker, etc.
My very first instinct was to say it is a memory issue. I have run a couple of different extensive memory tests and I don't get any failures. I swapped memory with another Laptop and the problem system still locks up. I bought a new set of memory modules and tried them, and it still locks up.
I did set the debug switch in the boot.ini file, so that I could connect another PC through the serial port running the microsoft debugger. When the system locked up the next time, I was able to discover that the debugger could still talk to the system. I was able to get a complete memory dump. The consistent thing I was able to learn from the memory dump was that drivers for USB were always left on the stack: "usbehci.sys ( usbehci!EHCI_AsyncCacheFlush+12c )". I have been able to connect the debug to two different ML900 under lockup several times and they always have that driver left on the kernel stack. If I just randomly grab the stack on a ML900 that is not locked up, I have not captured that on the stack (I was making sure that the USB driver wasn't something that was going on and off the stack 500 times a minute and the odds were that you would always find it there.) I fed this information back to Motorola and they have not responded with anything for me yet.
The thing that puzzles me is that Motorola tells us they have not seen this as a common problem. We have 4 systems that have this problem. With just those two facts I would say it would have to be something we are doing wrong. I done a lot of testing and can't find anywhere I can determine that I am going wrong, but I am always willing to back up and challenge my assumptions. The one thing I know is that I have two computers that didn't lockup, I send them in to the depot to repair an unrelated item, the motherboard is replaced, and when they come back they start locking up. This really makes me think that something is different on the motherboard, like a different revision of some hardware, that now needs a different driver installed. Motorola hasn't been able to indentify for me any drivers that would have changed.
At this point my boss is ready to just toss $40,000 worth of still under warranty Motorola's into the trash and go buy Dell ATGs!
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jackhackett
- Posts: 1515
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:52 am
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
I've had a couple of complaints of lock ups, but it's been relatively rare.. only a few instances out of a couple hundred installed units. Are you using some USB devices with them?
As far as tossing them... let's just say I'd never have one for my own personal use, even if it was given to me for free.
As far as tossing them... let's just say I'd never have one for my own personal use, even if it was given to me for free.
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
We have numerous ML900s and many had BSOD issues. Our local shop was given new USB-LAN and wireless LAN drivers from Motorola SSC, as they were supposedly the issue. It seems the new drivers have resolved the issue. All or part of this issue may be addressed in SRN: S-0189.
We had two other main issues.
1. screen problems (jittering, fuzziness, moving around) which were supposedly a result of a bad component on the motherboard.
2. lock-up issues (mostly that a unit will not come out of hibernation). Sending to depot sometimes resolves this problem, but we have some that have been at the depot several times and still lock-up and will not come out of hibernation. It is not a install/dock issue because the loaner ML900s we put in their place work with no problem.
We had two other main issues.
1. screen problems (jittering, fuzziness, moving around) which were supposedly a result of a bad component on the motherboard.
2. lock-up issues (mostly that a unit will not come out of hibernation). Sending to depot sometimes resolves this problem, but we have some that have been at the depot several times and still lock-up and will not come out of hibernation. It is not a install/dock issue because the loaner ML900s we put in their place work with no problem.
Re: ML900 Lockup Problem
We think our lock up issues are finally resolved! Sorry for the long delay in response, but I have been sidelined on this issue and we had pretty much given up on the ML900s.
Motorola SSC returned an ML900 to us that they installed in image on that was not supposed to lock up. Well, it ran three weeks and then hung. Then they sent me a new wireless driver, which then seemed to do the trick for that machine, because it has not locked up since. Now that we be good, if only we were installing wireless drivers on the other machines. It didn't make any sense to me that original problem I was seeing would relate to this driver. So after digging a little deeper, I noticed the fingerprint reader driver was also a new version, which we had never had before. Well I tried just the fingerprint driver on a machine and it appears to have quit it's lockups. I also reverted the fingerprint driver on the other machine which had quit locking up, and it locked overnight, two nights in a row.
So it appears that the problem we have been experiencing all this time relates to the fingerprint reader driver. If you are still having problems I would check that driver. The version that is working for me is 5.0.2033.2. I have tried versions 5.0.2025.x and 5.0.2030.x and they both would cause lockups for me.
We have also seen that display problem. We have had two machine have that problem, be sent in to be repaired, and then develop the same problem again. I don't know if they just didn't know how to fix the the problem back when we sent them in the first time, or if we are going to continue to see failures.
Motorola SSC returned an ML900 to us that they installed in image on that was not supposed to lock up. Well, it ran three weeks and then hung. Then they sent me a new wireless driver, which then seemed to do the trick for that machine, because it has not locked up since. Now that we be good, if only we were installing wireless drivers on the other machines. It didn't make any sense to me that original problem I was seeing would relate to this driver. So after digging a little deeper, I noticed the fingerprint reader driver was also a new version, which we had never had before. Well I tried just the fingerprint driver on a machine and it appears to have quit it's lockups. I also reverted the fingerprint driver on the other machine which had quit locking up, and it locked overnight, two nights in a row.
So it appears that the problem we have been experiencing all this time relates to the fingerprint reader driver. If you are still having problems I would check that driver. The version that is working for me is 5.0.2033.2. I have tried versions 5.0.2025.x and 5.0.2030.x and they both would cause lockups for me.
We have also seen that display problem. We have had two machine have that problem, be sent in to be repaired, and then develop the same problem again. I don't know if they just didn't know how to fix the the problem back when we sent them in the first time, or if we are going to continue to see failures.