Those Panter88 XTS-2500s??

PeterGV · Post by **PeterGV** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:25 pm

Anybody get one of those XTS-2500 II's with the 123ABC1234 serial number that Panter88 has on Ebay? If so, do they work?

They're reportedly flashed with 500008-000410-5, and have host and DSP R04.80.00 -- Aside from the obvious serial number issue, anything one should be wary of (like, I don't know... IMBE decoding was badly broken in DSP rev 4, or you need Asian CPS to program the radios, or this guy's radios always suck and need alignment before they'll work)? Will they program with the latest ASTO25 CPS??

I'm a relative newb to these parts, but given the price I might consider taking a shot with one of these... So I'm looking to those more knowledgeable for any guidance they might provide,

Peter
K1PGV

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:51 pm

No worries, they do program, no tags... thatmay be an issue for some, the ABC serial # s kinda a pain, but, if you have a fleet of these, it would make cloning a snap.

SG

PhillyPhoto · Post by **PhillyPhoto** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:57 pm

How's the IMBE audio on these units?

Also, how many channels would a 4MB radio be? 512 modes?

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:30 pm

Peter,

IMHO you might be better off getting "local/stateside" XTS3000 model 3
with a more recent firmware set. For most of us as hams there's not a
bit of difference in the practical operating features of the 5K, the 2500, and
the 3K radios. The only bell and whistle you really need is P25/IMBE.

Regards,

NSPD · Post by **NSPD** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:53 pm

You can upgrade a 4-Meg XTS2500 to Host/DSP 9 correct? I know Host/DSP 10 will not work.

So with Host/DSP 9 will these do 850 modes or are they still limited to 512?

4n6inv · Post by **4n6inv** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:50 pm

Not to disparage what Tom said, but I like the software for the P-25's much better than the Astro / XTS3000. It's much easier to use, but like he said; if you're just using it for normal use, a XTS3000 will suit your needs just fine. I've done a few deals with Panter88 and never had an issue. He has good feedback and has been around for a while. If you're looking stateside; I'd stick with someone on the board - Batdude, Motofanatic, Jason, Akardam all have excellent reputations, if they have the equipment. They're worth waiting on...

Jim

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:49 pm

A local ham picked one up who wanted a fairly inexpensive entry P25 radio and what he received was exactly what was advertised. The P25 is decent and actually sounded just as good as the recently flashed AS mobile that I was talking back and forth with after I programed it for him. It has 256 modes, US CPS didn't care about the 123ABC1234 serial number, and it has 4 MEG memory so if it was flashed with 9.00.05 it would have 512 modes available.

I know of others who have delt with this overseas vendor and they have had good luck with his products but be aware that if it does break you won't be sending it to depot for repair, and if you do you might not get it back.

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:54 pm

NSPD wrote:You can upgrade a 4-Meg XTS2500 to Host/DSP 9 correct? I know Host/DSP 10 will not work.

So with Host/DSP 9 will these do 850 modes or are they still limited to 512?

They were never made to do 850 modes. 512 is the max at this time for the Model II's and III's.
The xts2.5K model 1.5 will only do 96 modes.

Post by **akardam** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:34 pm

I've seen a couple 123ABC1234 Astro 25 radios have their firmware uplifted to then-current R09 Host/DSP, without problems. My understanding is if regular CPS can read them (vs the dreaded developmental CPS) then you'd be good to go.

N4DES · Post by **N4DES** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:33 am

That Beta CPS is a pain in the arse. I have 1 demo radio that requires that I use it and I dread each time I have to modify the programming in it.
I was hoping a firmware update would fix it if I did it in regular CPS - no dice. I had to do the firmware update in the Beta version...grrrrr!

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:26 am

Anybody actually held one of these particular units? Just wondering what condition they are in , the pics look brand new.

dxon2m · Post by **dxon2m** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:30 am

I have one, condition is about 9/10. There are one or two scuff marks, but knobs, dials, buttons are firm to twist and perform. The original one I purchased from him had problems with LCD not lighting up and not recognizing the speaker mic. I brought the issue to him and he gladly send a replacement unit while I sending mine back.

It doesn't require beta CPS to program. I used CPS R9 and it reads/write with no problem. I did notice the TPS options are available (can't remember if it was a CPS or firmware feature) so I can't wait to play with that when my radio comes back from a firmware bump.

Oh, the XTS2500 is a heck a lot lighter than my UHF XTS3000...must..pull..myself...from...addiction

PeterGV · Post by **PeterGV** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:17 pm

All you folks talking about bumping the firmware: Where/how are you getting this done? (I feel like such a dope asking this)

I tried to get the firmware in my XTS3K upgraded by my local M-authorized radio shop (very pleasant folks), and they wanted $300+ including doing the required alignment/PM (the alignment by itself as only $75, which I thought was reasonable).

I'm thinkin' you're not buying a $350 radio and doing a $300 firmware upgrade. So... folks have a bunch of ibuttons and smart ribs laying around or, what?

Peter

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:41 pm

You don't need a smartrib to bump a 2500. FYI

SG

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:06 am

I'd stay away from really early firmware like R02.00.00 and 123ABCD1234 serials. Those are the ones you'll need special development CPS, which Mot probably would not sell ya. Host R04.00.00 and higher whould be just fine with normal CPS - even with 123ABCD1234.

Even though panter88 2500's are 4 meg, host 9.00.05 is a really good build with very few bugs and should work just fine.

dirtrat · Post by **dirtrat** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:19 pm

Just out of curiousity, what are you going to do with these radios when they need to be sent to Motorola for repair? They won't repair a radio with a serial number of 123ABCD1234. I doubt any reputable MSS would repair them also.

PeterGV · Post by **PeterGV** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:06 pm

dirtrat wrote:Just out of curiousity, what are you going to do with these radios when they need to be sent to Motorola for repair? They won't repair a radio with a serial number of 123ABCD1234. I doubt any reputable MSS would repair them also.

To be honest, I'm hoping it won't need repair. I'm not that hard on my gear.

If at some time in the future it DOES need repair, my plan is to try options in the following order:

1) Ask if there's an individual here on BatLabs that can fix it;

2) Plead with an MSS -- either somebody local to me or (even better) through this board -- if they'll take a shot at fixing it, given they know the story of where it's from and that, well, *I* didn't steal or hack it;

3) Use it as an expensive, yet impressive looking, paperweight. Not as expensive as a dead LEGITIMATE XTS-2500, mind you.

... or, perhaps as an alternative to option 3, I'll send it to Mexico and see what -- if anything -- comes back. I mean, at that point, what would I have to lose... except the chance that Moto wouldn't send it back and I'd lose the ability to use it as a paperweight...

n3obl · Post by **n3obl** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:37 pm

I purchased one off him. Mdl 2 800 and it worked great. Not 123abc had a regular serial. Had it flashed and upgraded to r09 and now it is a mdl 3.

Very nice radio. HAve bought other things off him before.

Frank

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:38 pm

n3obl wrote:Had it flashed and upgraded to r09 and now it is a mdl 3.

Care to share how that happened???

PhillyPhoto · Post by **PhillyPhoto** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:03 pm

Batwings21 wrote:
n3obl wrote:Had it flashed and upgraded to r09 and now it is a mdl 3.
Care to share how that happened???

I second that... Secret Squirrel procedures maybe?

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:55 am

No problems upgrading to Host R09.00.05 on a 123ABCD

Now QC is a working like it should - sweet

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:47 am

Hightower wrote:No problems upgrading to Host R09.00.05 on a 123ABCD

Now QC is a working like it should - sweet

Just to be safe, what cps did you use?

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:58 am

Batwings21 wrote:
Hightower wrote:No problems upgrading to Host R09.00.05 on a 123ABCD

Now QC is a working like it should - sweet
Just to be safe, what cps did you use?

10

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:33 pm

Still no one wants to fess up to the secret squirrel stuff???
No surprise, oh well...

dxon2m · Post by **dxon2m** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:47 pm

It seems like my panter88 radio sounds quite muffled on transmit when I speak directly into the radio, however it sounds clear and crisp when I use a speaker mic. I was wondering if anyone else has similar issue?

I'll look into the TX settings tomorrow, but so far I have Transmit Emphasis enabled. Under radio wide menu, TX Audio Control enabled for Analog, Digital and Securenet AGC with a total of 6. Also, noise suppression is enabled.

dxon2m · Post by **dxon2m** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:18 pm

Nevermind, I was able to fix the problem (at least for the most part) by increasing the AGC to +12dB.

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:28 pm

dxon2m wrote:Nevermind, I was able to fix the problem (at least for the most part) by increasing the AGC to +12dB.

You should not have to bump the mic gain to +12. Sounds like the mic element is bad (or on its way out). I would replace the mic element for a few bucks before it possably fails in the field when you really need it.

Cheers

Ford · Post by **Ford** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:55 am

I would regard any with that serial number of 123ABC1234 as a stolen item. That serial number is an internal Motorola serial number, and shouldn't leave the doors. You would never see that serial number on a customer radio.

Post by **Mfire39** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:40 am

Ford, I don't think we have to re-invent the wheel explaining what the 123ABC serial number is... It has been brought up so many times in the past on here that I lost count...

It doesn't mean it's a "stolen" radio just because it has that serial number, that is just a "default number"..

Here is a good example, and only an example.. Lets say you were to purchase a brand new vocon board for a 5K from Moto.. It shows up and it is CBI initialized.. When you read the radio with CPS, it will prompt you to enter a serial number for the board.. If I were to enter 123ABC1234, that doesn't mean that my radio now becomes illegal or stolen... Again, just an example..

-Marc

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:04 am

Ford wrote:I would regard any with that serial number of 123ABC1234 as a stolen item. That serial number is an internal Motorola serial number, and shouldn't leave the doors. You would never see that serial number on a customer radio.

If this is the case, then "M" shouldn't sell them to a scrap dealer that they KNOW is going to turn around and sell them on Ebay.
So explain..... how is it stolen?

SG

PeterGV · Post by **PeterGV** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:16 am

spectragod wrote:If this is the case, then "M" shouldn't sell them to a scrap dealer

LOL... they don't REALLY, do they?? If they do scrap radios without crushing them first, that's about the funniest thing I've ever heard. They might as well just advertise them on EBay themselves, cut out the middleman, and make a few extra bucks :-)

PeterGV

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:55 pm

PeterGV wrote:
spectragod wrote:If this is the case, then "M" shouldn't sell them to a scrap dealer
LOL... they don't REALLY, do they?? If they do scrap radios without crushing them first, that's about the funniest thing I've ever heard. They might as well just advertise them on EBay themselves, cut out the middleman, and make a few extra bucks

PeterGV

Panter88 = Patrick L. Harrington's alter ego/ EBAY user name?????

Kinda like Clark Kent and Superman

Wicho · Post by **Wicho** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:18 pm

Classic!

Batwings21 wrote: Panter88 = Patrick L. Harrington's alter ego/ EBAY user name?????

Kinda like Clark Kent and Superman

spectragod · Post by **spectragod** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:03 pm

Uhhhhhhhhhh.... yes they do. They don't crush or shred anymore, they sell straight out to their contract high bid scrap dealer.... go figure.

SG

PeterGV wrote:
spectragod wrote:If this is the case, then "M" shouldn't sell them to a scrap dealer
LOL... they don't REALLY, do they?? If they do scrap radios without crushing them first, that's about the funniest thing I've ever heard. They might as well just advertise them on EBay themselves, cut out the middleman, and make a few extra bucks

PeterGV

Ford · Post by **Ford** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:47 pm

PeterGV wrote:
spectragod wrote:If this is the case, then "M" shouldn't sell them to a scrap dealer
LOL... they don't REALLY, do they?? If they do scrap radios without crushing them first, that's about the funniest thing I've ever heard. They might as well just advertise them on EBay themselves, cut out the middleman, and make a few extra bucks

PeterGV

They're supposed to be crushed, but somehow they managed to get out. I've heard a story of a crate of MTSs with water damage scrapped and supposed to be crushed showing up at the repair depot.

txshooter · Post by **txshooter** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:21 pm

Ford wrote:I would regard any with that serial number of 123ABC1234 as a stolen item. That serial number is an internal Motorola serial number, and shouldn't leave the doors. You would never see that serial number on a customer radio.

..................................

They're supposed to be crushed, but somehow they managed to get out. I've heard a story of a crate of MTSs with water damage scrapped and supposed to be crushed showing up at the repair depot.

There have been tons of different radios over the years that have come out of Motorola that supossedly were not supposed to......Also, I definately would not consider the radio stolen with that internal serial number.......

Ford · Post by **Ford** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:29 pm

You have to think about it this way. If we're talking about DIYers here, I could understand how you might repair a radio and have it that way. However, a secondary end-consumer (i.e. eBay) should not be seeing radios with that serial number. If you get a radio with a development codeplug, should that really be a radio that has left the building? I just think in some ways it's easier to rationalize "well, it might have been chip-swapped at a depot" than to think about the more likely reality, which was "somebody probably got a hold of it that shouldn't." If a department abandoned them, it's still something that should stay within Motorola.

Post by **Grog** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:17 pm

Ford wrote:
If a department abandoned them, it's still something that should stay within Motorola.

Then tell motorola to not sell them, there, fixed. jeeez

Just what dog to you have in this race? Do you sell new 2500s and don't like the egay competition?

txshooter · Post by **txshooter** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:24 pm

I guess Motorola should have crushed them and nto sold them to a salvage dealer then!!!

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:54 pm

This guy has sold a crap load of these things, and they are great radios for the price, good condition, they've been tuned by the factory (as good if not better than most radio's I see coming from Motorola directly) and they DO NOT have developmental codeplugs. With a firmware bump, they are every bit as good as any other "a" revision xts2500, except depot support. And I bet if it did break and you were clever enough, you could get the depot to repair it. And as it has been said, Moto sold these things in the shape they are in what did they think was going to happen. Nobody walked out with these in their lunchbox.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:08 pm

Panter88 is a good seller. His hardware is 100 percent legit. Calling it stolen property on a public forum is borderline slander. Unless this serial number is listed in NCIC, Motorola/whoever replaced Pat can go FOAD. They are being sold legally and purchased by many in good faith. If Motorola wants to refuse to service them, fine that is their business, but maybe they should be more selective about who they contract for scrapping out products considering they KNOW full well these are being resold.
Speaking of, now that Pat is gone, seems the lights are on but no one home at Ma M IP enforcement as a plethora of sellers on Ebay are peddling warez. That's something they should be so concerned about as they actually have a chance in cracking nuts- not some guy legally selling what he purchased from them.

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:21 pm

Motorolas IP department must not be totally gone, as they pulled a perfectly legit radio auction (XTS2500) while letting a few CPS auctions stay up. Whats up with that? Go after the legit stuff while letting the illegal stuff sell. Hrmmm.

If these panter88 radios were illegal or stolen, they would have been taken down with the legit radio being sold. He's been selling them for months with none taken down.

I've worked on 2 of these 2500's so far. Both were perfectly tuned and aligned. Both parties are very happy with them so far. For $380, that's a steal for a legit Astro25 product.

mikegilbert · Post by **mikegilbert** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:46 am

I still haven't received a response from /\/\ regarding their allegations. The claimed my radio was "counterfeit" and "contains illegal software" or "illegally copied software"

The auction is back up with a nice /\/\essage to mother.

It looks as if we've got a new seller from overseas in the mix- he seems like a nice guy just like Mr Lau.

Hightower · Post by **Hightower** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:06 am

That's insain. Counterfeit? Ya right.

What about the counterfeit chargers and antennas sold by the 1000's everyday?

Makes ya wonder, doesn't it???

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:36 am

Thats stupid they complain about your auction which is from what I see a legit radio, but they let me resell my panter radio, Panter still sells them, and they let that guy who sold one with " a cd that will be useful to the buyer" but they kill yours???

PeterGV · Post by **PeterGV** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:07 am

Not to hijack the thread yet further, but...

<QUOTE>
The claimed my radio was "counterfeit" and "contains illegal software" or "illegally copied software"
</QUOTE>

What I find funniest about this is, if you look at mikegilbert's ORIGINAL AUCTION LISTING (it's archived in google) the source of the radio is perfectly clear. He photographed the freakin' package, for goodness sakes. The original customer, options, and lot number is shown right on the package.

Who capable of reading English could look at the original picture and come to the conclusion that it wasn't a legit radio?

Peter
K1PGV

W8RW · Post by **W8RW** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:38 pm

MTS2000des wrote:His hardware is 100 percent legit.

The radios Panter88 is selling may not be stolen, but that is not the same thing as being "100 percent legit". For example, if it was sold as scrap, then more than likely the person who bought it from /\/\ as scrap signed an agreement to not resell it. In this case it is obviously not stolen (they paid for it and own it), but they might not be allowed to resell it, and whatever claims /\/\ makes on their IP would be different in this case than if a radio were purchased through legitimate means.

Ford · Post by **Ford** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:49 pm

Grog wrote:
Ford wrote:
If a department abandoned them, it's still something that should stay within Motorola.

Then tell motorola to not sell them, there, fixed. jeeez

Just what dog to you have in this race? Do you sell new 2500s and don't like the egay competition?

I have nothing to hide. I just want people who depend on these radios with their lives not to have a radio fail when they need it most. From an image perspective, it'd look pretty bad to Motorola if someone was injured/died from radios that shouldn't have left the door in the first place. I don't care about image, though. It's people's lives on the line, and it worries me to know that people are relying on these radios when they don't know what's happened to them beforehand. They could have been development hardware, burn-in radios, or damaged in some way that wouldn't be obvious to the average user, and that's just assuming they were taken from salvage. Departments get rid of them for a reason. Motorola doesn't sell them; they refuse to. Any radio that they will get rid of by procedure should be destroyed first. If they haven't been, someone's violating the agreement in place, and possibly breaking the law.

PhillyPhoto · Post by **PhillyPhoto** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:29 pm

Ford wrote:I just want people who depend on these radios with their lives not to have a radio fail when they need it most. From an image perspective, it'd look pretty bad to Motorola if someone was injured/died from radios that shouldn't have left the door in the first place.

Well to me, you shouldn't be using a $500 radio that retails for over $2000 new plus options as your lifeline. That should be your first give-away. Of course with the media we have today it would go back to Motorola for "selling a defective product" without doing any research on how and where the radio was purchased from. I don't think there so bad to the point where they shouldn't be used at all like others have said, they have recent firmware, and work fine. If you're a legitimate user on the system, and want a 2nd radio to listen to other talkgroups that you may not listen to normally, I don't see the real harm behind that.

I do believe that if Motorola cares about the destruction of test/defective radios, then they should either switch back to in-house processes or have tighter scrutiny and auditing of their contractors. Otherwise they really don't have too much to complain about since their lack of oversight created the issue to begin with.

MTS2000des · Post by **MTS2000des** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:49 pm

W8RW wrote:
MTS2000des wrote:His hardware is 100 percent legit.
The radios Panter88 is selling may not be stolen, but that is not the same thing as being "100 percent legit". For example, if it was sold as scrap, then more than likely the person who bought it from /\/\ as scrap signed an agreement to not resell it. In this case it is obviously not stolen (they paid for it and own it), but they might not be allowed to resell it, and whatever claims /\/\ makes on their IP would be different in this case than if a radio were purchased through legitimate means.

yes but Motorola's action should be against the company they contract to dispose of said items, not a purchaser acting in good faith. If the item isn't reported stolen, it isn't contraband and Motorola can go FOAD as far as I'm concerned. If they don't want these "second rate" scrap radios on the market, don't sell them to persons who clearly are disposing them as complete product. As Spectragod pointed out, Motorola obviously knows that these units are being resold. They also have the option to not support them and that is their right, but to accuse persons of illegal activity or being parties to illegal activity is pure bat squeeze.

I wouldn't put anything bought off Ebay second hand in a life safety situation, unless it was purchased from an authorized dealer/established business with a warranty. But that's just me. YMMV.