Motorola Trunking Capabilities

[Medic28944]

Hi all, I have been around programming Motorola for conventional operation for a number of years. However there was a recent switch from conventional to LTR trunking. The system was designed to work with Kenwood but since Kenwood is probably the worst product on the market I have a HT1550 XLS that I love. I was just curious besides the HT1550XLS, HT1250 LS and LS+ and EX600XLS are there any other portables that support LTR?

[tvsjr]

P1225LS
GTX-LS

What's your beef with Kenwood? You must have used some of their bottom-end stuff... I've got dozens of the x180, x80, and x90 series in service and have had very, very few problems with them. I would take my 2180 anywhere I'd take my XTS5000, and I'd take it well before I'd take a 1550 anywhere.

Be aware that Moto's implementation of LTR is not nearly as good as Kenwood's... you'll see more "hunting" for a channel grant, no talkaround functionality, etc. Also, if the system is using Fleetsync signalling, your Moto won't be compatible.

And yes, I've owned/used the 1550XLS, TK380, and TK3180, all on the same system.

[escomm]

PR400 does LTR trunking as well.

Current production Motorola radios will do MDC1200 over LTR with no additional programming or hardware needed on the controller side, FWIW.

ETA: EX560XLS does it as well.

[Medic28944]

Thanks for all the info guys. My beef with Kenwood has to do with the 3180's. My service bought 60 brand new 3180 that have just turned 1 year old. Of the 60 there are at minimal 20 that have multiple cracks in the casing that is not from trauma to the radio. They have cracked from having speaker mics on them and numerous programming issues. My service issue radio had to be taken out of service because the case opened up from the programming port to the antenna on the back of the radio. There has been a radio, while in the middle of a shift, show up with an eprom error and became unusable. I would have to get the error it came up with again as I dont have it in front of me. They seem to transmit good, however there are multiple occasions where you can hit the repeater clearly to someone listening but you cant hear the repeater tail. My partner carries his 3180 while I carry my 1550 and while he can pretty much transmit where I can he cant always hear dispatch and I have never had a problem with hearing dispatch when he cant. Im NOT here to bash Kenwood and put Motorola on a pedastal but these new Kenwoods we have speak for their selves. On a side not the Kenwood 890 series mobiles are probably the best mobile radio ever made.

[tvsjr]

"Can't hear the repeater tail"?

You know that's intentional, right? It's called Reverse Burst. Your Moto hears it because the Kenwood specification for reverse burst is different than the Motorola specification (both involve sending the PL tone a certain amount out-of-phase for a given duration to close subscribe units' receivers so they don't hear the squelch tail).

As far as the cracks not being from trauma - I call BS. The cracks didn't just form on their own. I've got 3180s in service that are probably 3 years old (bought just after the model was introduced) that are carried by line firefighters on a daily basis with speaker mics attached, and we aren't experiencing case cracking or eprom errors. Are you using non-Kenwood speaker mics?

[Medic28944]

Im not here for argument or debate, just stating facts. You can call BS all day long, its not helping our radios. They are legit cracks and we are using KMC 25 which has been replaced by the KMC 41. We are also using KPG 36 I believe which is the original Kenwood program cable. Sorry that I came to the Motorola General Discussion forum to ask about Motorola products and capabilities and get in a war of the keyboard over what you think is BS. Ive stated my facts and sorry you can come to grasp with that.

[Medic28944]

Also the repeater tail statement I misquoted. Dispatch can hear when you transmit, however theres alot of times the 3180's receiver will not pick up our dispatch talking back to us and my Motorola will. Thats all I ment to say there. That was my fault.

[akardam]

I suppose it comes down to the fact that everyone will have different experiences. We have a fleet of about a dozen TK3180's in service with our DPW at Burning Man. These things get used and abused year 'round. I can't imagine a harsher environment for a radio to be in, but they've done OK. I can't say that we've had anything as drastic as what's been happening to you.

The first thing that comes to mind with regards to your coverage issues would be to have the radios that are operating poorly put on the bench on the service monitor and verify that they're performing within spec. If not, tune them up. If they can't be made to perform within spec, then they need to be repaired/replaced.

As far as the physical problems you're having, if the radios are only now turning 1 year old, I'd certianly take up the issue with either the dealer you purchased them from or your local Kenwood rep, or both, especially if the problem has been going on for a while. Kenwood's QC has been excellent in my experience, but things happen, perhaps there was something funky with the batch of radios you got.

Anyway, people have posted a pretty comprehensive list of Motorola LTR radios in this thread, hopefully this information has answered your question.

[Cowboy]

The TK2180's stock antenna makes the radio seem deaf out of the box.

Swapping to a decent aftermarket antenna makes an *incredible* difference...

As far as LTR handhelds, we're very limited locally on options as everything operates on a Passport system.

[wavetar]

The TRBO radios will apparently be LTR & Passport capable within the next 6 months or so with add-on Scholer-Johnson boards, according to what they showed at the Toronto road show a few weeks ago.

[bernie]

My two bits worth:
It seems that you are having problems with plastic case failures, which seem to be an isolated occurrence.
I have seen contact preservatives such as "Cramolin" cause the plastic connectors to fail months after being exposed to the chemical.
Sun tan lotion used to do this to sun glasses.
I recall a case where a GE dealer in CA was having problems with the bottom falling off the Lexan case, which is supposed to be indestructible, on the GE PR36 portable.
Seems the tech would give the antenna jack on the bottom of the radio a shot of aerosol cleaner, the reaction caused the plastic to shatter months later.

Perhaps some time in the past some of your radios were exposed to such a chemical, perhaps some kind of cleaner.

If that seems to be the case, then you could obtain replacement housings, and learn how to swap the housing.

[com501]

The TRBO radios will apparently be LTR & Passport capable within the next 6 months or so with add-on Scholer-Johnson boards, according to what they showed at the Toronto road show a few weeks ago.

I sure hope that Ma M has worked out the bugs with those boards from the Maxtrac days....

Coverage issues between two diffent branded but otherwise technically identical radios can be as simple as a programming error such as the and/or squelch setting.

I agree with Akardam, bench those puppies and check the squelch settings, programmed features and maybe look at changing to a different antenna. They should perform virtually identically between the Motorola and the Kenwood.

[wavetar]

I sure hope that Ma M has worked out the bugs with those boards from the Maxtrac days....

Well, it's not really up to Ma M, since they don't make the boards. However, since they offer them as an "approved" solution, they will have to work closely with SJ to ensure they work properly, as they have with Trident and the Professional LS+ boards. The SJ boards for the Maxtracs were never Motorola approved, since they made their own line of LTR models.