Whelen HHS2100 Remote ?

[hvacesu78]

Whelen HHS2100 Remote Siren

I have read the manual/install guide repeatedly but I suppose I needed to hear it from someone

What I would like is :
Button A- Rear Lights Only
Button B- Front Lights Only
Button C - Front and Rear Lights...
I would like to select what lights to be on.

Apparently it looks like the unit cannot do this...since the outlets matched to the switches will be on.... http://whelen.com/install/140/14057.pdf

A-Outlet 1 (GOOD !)
B-Outlets 1 & 2 (NO ! Just want Outlet 2)
C-Outlets 1, 2 & 3* (GOOD !!)
1- H/F (Outlet 9)
2- MAN
3- Air Horn
4- Siren
5- Radio
6- Alley (Outlets 4 & 5)
7- Outlet 6
8-Outlet 7
9- Outlet 8

Ugh ! Did i miss the boat?
IDeas?
The manual says default controls.. is there a way to reprogram the hand held control head?

Thank you in advance.
John

[HumHead]

Well, if you can't get the unit to do it internally, you could always make it happen externally with a couple of relays.

[hvacesu78]

Humhead
thanks. hope all is well on ur end !

Hmm I dont think I can do it with the unit.
I may want to do the relay thing.

John

[Pj]

Simple, don't use outlet 1, and wire 2 & 3.

95% of slide swtich and push button installs go:

1-Front, 2-Rear, 3-Both

If this is in a fleet/pool use vehicle, it flows with natural flow of thing...and its more user friendly. People just equate 1st with front, etc etc. Just my two cents.

Worse case, call Whelen Tech Support and run your idea by them...

[hvacesu78]

Pj
thats why ur a good moderator

I didnt think to do that.. however if I hit "3" it will run both/all outlets...not exactly what i wanted.
1- no use (ok)
2- rear only (good)
3- rear and front ( no )
And yes, that is exactly what I wanted to do is keep similar to the slide switch as u described.

Perhaps humhead will lead me to the light with a relay diagram
Whelen is my next step

Thanks !

[HumHead]

See if this makes any sense. It just uses two standard SPDT relays.



That should give you:
Position A- Output 1 on- Rear Lights only
Position B- Outputs 1 and 2 on- Front Lights only
Position C- Outputs 1 and 2 and 3 on- Both Front and Rear Lights

[tvsjr]

Heh... someone who still knows how to do old-school relay logic.

[thebigphish]

it's a dying art...

I still prefer relay switched low voltage systems for our vehicles. When designed properly, they are incredibly easy to modify...easy to maintain, and you don't need any special training or equipment (other than a test light or multimeter to fix).

[hvacesu78]

Humhead !
EXCELLENT
Thank you i will play around with this set up and let you know.
Thanks again !

[nick.dejohn]

I have been looking at this schematic. I have one question suppose I want to do the following:

Position 1 - Front
Position 2 - Rear
Position 3 - All

Could it be done using relays?

Nick

[thebigphish]

Isn't that what Humhead posted? All you would have to do is swap the feeds to the lightheads...

[nick.dejohn]

I put together the relay setup as shown in the diagram. I am a little confuse on some of the wiring.

I see Output 1 going into the Common on the first relay and then the wire going to the lights from the Normally Closed Circuit on the first relay. Then, if I understand this correctly, Output 2 goes into the Normally Open Circuit of the first relay, then comes out and goes to the Common on the second relay as well as go to the second set of lights. Then, the Normally Open circuit on the second relay goes to ground and Output 3 goes to the Normally Closed Circuit on the second relay. Do I have it right or could someone help me out. I hate relays and avoid them at all costs if it doesn't show.

Thanks,
Nick

[HumHead]

It appears that you are confusing the switched contact circuit with the coil circuit on the relay. Neither of the normally open contacts would be used in this application.

The basic idea of the relay is that it is an electromechanical device in which a coil of wire acts as an electromagnet and pulls in an arm with a set of contacts on it. If you find a relay with a clear case, or break one open, the whole thing becomes fairly obvious. Also, in anticipation of the question coming up, since they are nothing more than coils of wire and contacts, relays do not care about polarity. As long as current flows through them they work. (Yes relay gurus, for simplicity, I am ignoring reverse EMF diodes as irrelevant to this particular discussion)

Here are the basic paths that current follows in the diagram above:

1) Output 1 drives the first set of lights (call them front, rear, A, B, whatever- the nomenclature is ultimately irrelevant) through the normally closed circuit on the first relay.
2) The second set of lights is driven directly off of output 2, which also supplies power to the coil on the first relay.
3) The ground side of the first relay's coil returns to ground through the normally closed circuit on the second relay.
4) Output 3 simply supplies power to the coil of the second relay.
5) The ground side of the second relay's coil simply goes straight to ground.

C'mon, show relays some love!

[nick.dejohn]

I sat down last night and throught this out and looked at your schematic. I took the time and figured it instead of rushing to try and make it work. It worked great and I am all set. Thanks to all the helped me with this issue.

Thanks,
Nick

[jackhackett]

Most of the departments around here go a slightly different route which works well with this controller type, progressively switched (3 outputs... each succesive switch position adds another output to the ones already on, ie: 1, 1+2, 1+2+3).

Position 1 - Rear
Position 2 - Front + Rear
Position 3 - Front + Rear + Extras (ie. strobes, wig-wags)

The idea being that for pursuit you go to Pos. 3... everything blazing away!, you use Pos. 2 for basic 360 lights, and Pos. 1 for just the rear lights when on a stop where you don't want the lights in our eyes, but you want the back of the car lit up.

Is there a situation where you would want just front lights?

[thebigphish]

Jack, IMHO, there is no reason.

I am of the belief that if you are ANYWHERE, on any call, and if you HAVE to have your lights on in some capacity, you should atleast have BASIC 360 degree coverage...no matter what your switching setup. If you are going to setup a pursuit switch, i would suggest having the angled corners be on no matter what, so even if you are in a rush (and WE ALL KNOW THAT HAPPENS) and you have atleast 2 lightheads on facing forwards. Nothing is worse than going somewhere, trying to pre-empt traffic, and finding out that your business end of your lightbar is off due to operator error. This also helps so that people can find your car from anywhere, and it identifies the vehicles at all times...

I had a brilliant person i know bring that up, present the idea to me, and immediately sold...no wonder he is so far up the ladder at an industry leader.

Using the 360s on the corners of the bar protects you the most, and 2 angled LEDs on a lightbar facing off center @ most scenes will not blind you...it's when the whacker pulls up behind you with "ActionCometBezerker" flash on 26 forward facing lightheads that will stun you optically. Couple smart lighting configuration, maximize lighthead on time per pattern, and you will be in a safer situation.

[dig]
and don't use lampwire and electrical tape on your installs
[/dig]

[ffexpCP]

I have this siren. If I remember right, there is a single button for alley lights. I think it has 2 relays and the button toggles between left/right/both.

Not exactly 1/2/3 or A/B/C but it would work.

[Pj]

Is there a situation where you would want just front lights?

Keeping an old thread alive...

Yes.

In terms of strobe and LED bars:

-if your going somewhere, there is no reason to show traffic where you are now after you passed them, and not to blind them (most LED bars) when they are behind you at night for no reason other than to blind them as you are moving away.

-If your vehicle happens to be facing the wrong way and protecting the scene - no need to blind people on the other side working the incident.

For the most part, standard switching for many departments where I was (strobe, now LED) was - Front only / Rear only / 360. Since most cops only know on/off, that worked well. Wigwags, rear flashers and the such had their own buttons.

[ka8ypy]

Around here and back in Ohio it is:
1: Rear (bar, deck lights, strobes, etc)
2: Rear/Front (bar, deck and dash, strobes, etc.)
3: Pursuit add wig wags, takedowns to the above.

Separate buttons for alleys and takedowns, plus any other accessories.

[ka8ypy]

Is there a situation where you would want just front lights?

Keeping an old thread alive...

Yes.

In terms of strobe and LED bars:

-If your vehicle happens to be facing the wrong way and protecting the scene - no need to blind people on the other side working the incident.

Why would you be facing the wrong way?? Most if not all safety protocols call for parking the same direction as the primary accident scene with the vehicle angled so that if struck, the vehicle does not become part of the accident scene.

Also, if departments would learn how to wire the low power functions directly to the park circuit, blinded drivers/assistance would not be such an issue.

[afterimage84]

Why would you be facing the wrong way?? Most if not all safety protocols call for parking the same direction as the primary accident scene with the vehicle angled so that if struck, the vehicle does not become part of the accident scene.

Spoken like a true textbook administrator. Works on paper, but in the real world...actually that doesn't work on paper the way you have written it either... Most if not all attempts are made to follow those "suggestions" but there are plenty of times it simply does not work out the way the textbooks say it should.

Moving on, it would appear that nobody here has actually followed or been a part of a more than one vehicle response at night? Those are the times there is no need to have the rears on as night vision is handy to have when you get out as well as it is tough to drive with all that nonsense flashing in front of you. Take the new LED stuff and no low power switch in sight on a dark road and it's all over.

360 coverage is great all the time on say a private plow contractor, DOT truck, the mourge, storm chasers (?) or a hook....the amber crowd. Kinda that, "have lights but no real reason for them" amber club.

[ka8ypy]

Why would you be facing the wrong way?? Most if not all safety protocols call for parking the same direction as the primary accident scene with the vehicle angled so that if struck, the vehicle does not become part of the accident scene.

Spoken like a true textbook administrator. Works on paper, but in the real world...actually that doesn't work on paper the way you have written it either... Most if not all attempts are made to follow those "suggestions" but there are plenty of times it simply does not work out the way the textbooks say it should.

Moving on, it would appear that nobody here has actually followed or been a part of a more than one vehicle response at night? Those are the times there is no need to have the rears on as night vision is handy to have when you get out as well as it is tough to drive with all that nonsense flashing in front of you. Take the new LED stuff and no low power switch in sight on a dark road and it's all over.

360 coverage is great all the time on say a private plow contractor, DOT truck, the mourge, storm chasers (?) or a hook....the amber crowd. Kinda that, "have lights but no real reason for them" amber club.

That is why I set up one of the accessory switches as a "rear cutout" so you don't blind responding/back-up units for traffic stops and the like. The switch is wired to a N.C. relay and when activated, opens the relay and kills power to the rear warning so the rear unit assumes rear coverage.

While not having had any experience in it, I do ask the guys running the equipment what they want when I set it up, even going as far to include the officer the car goes to if it is a take home vehicle when the department specs the vehicle and placement of lights. So far, so long as it has met department spec, I haven't had a problem including the officer in the spec/design/set-up.