New Radio System same problems

[lukek987]

Our department recently updated all of their radio equipment with the exception to portable radios and car radios. We have the most problems with our Motorola brand HT1250 portables with transmissions breaking up or being garbled to dead zones in and out of buildings to not being able to receive. We seem to have alot of cable bleed over when picking up the car mic from the holder and can listen clearly to a cable station and have a decent amount of bleedover from communities at least 50 miles away in another state. We currently just upgraded from two tac receivers to 7 but there has not been much of a change and seems to boost the bleedover more than anything. Just looking for some possible answers. I am not in charge of the radios and have limited knowledge of the systems in general but it is getting more and more dangerous with radios that do not work.

[wx4cbh]

Bleedover is a vague and very undefined term. And what do you mean by "cable station"? Cable TV? If so, that is a problem that needs to be dealt with immediately by the cable TV people because it is strictly illegal to have that kind of cable leakage.

Is the interference from other users on the same frequency as your radios? If so, that isn't "bleedover", that's interference from other systems on the same frequency. The radio is apparently programmed to disable the PL/DPL when the mic is off-hook. That allows you to hear anyone else on the same frequency when the mic isn't in the holder and is a normal function when programmed to do so. This begs the question as to why your radios are programmed to disable the PL/DPL when off-hook. I realize that the off-hook monitor feature complies with the FCC mandate to monitor before transmitting, but this is not necessary or required when the frequency is supposedly NOT shared within the coordinated area of the license. If your agency is licensed for the frequency and was first on the frequency, why were other agencies coordinated for the same frequency in your coordinated area?

Bottom line is that you can eliminate the annoying side of things by reprogramming the radios to NOT disable PL/DPL when off-hook, but that does not in any way address the on-frequency or cable interference. Even if every component of your radio system is working to specs, interference from other stations/systems on the same frequency or interference from other sources will definitely impede the ability of your radio system to function properly as a critical mission system. Questions for the administration and the radio shop.

[Bill_G]

+1 on wx4cbh's comments. Definitely sounds like there is some work to be done.

[lukek987]

Yes it is definitely interference not bleedover not so good with the technical terms. We do receive a cable channel over our radios when you take the mic off the holder and one guy even heard us talking on his television while watching that same channel. I have mentioned to the admin before about cable signal leaking and did not really get to far. How does a cable company fix that problem and do we deal with the cable company of is that more an FCC issue? Thanks for the info.

[escomm]

Call your local FCC field office and file a complaint.

[Jim202]

It is not hard to get the cable company to comply with the leakage requirements. The hardest thing is trying to find out who to contact. I would start with the local cable office where everyone goes to pay their bill. Ask the people there who the system engineer is and how do you contact that person. Talk with the engineer and explain that his cable system is causing interference to the local public safety radio system. Normally the engineer will respond with a comment like he will look into it right away. If he blows you off, then at least you have his contact info to pass along to the FCC. Make sure you spell out the location or locations of the cable leakage.

I have seen the FCC come out and listen to the public safety channel and see just how bad the leakage is. Then that field engineer will call the cable engineer and tell him he has x number of minutes to have a person on the site of the leakage. No response can lead to the FCC engineer calling the power company and having the electrical meter pulled from the head end distribution point. That generally causes someone to respond in a short time. Then the official discussion ensues as to how long it will take to have the leakage resolved.

Most cable leakage problems are caused by improperly installed connectors or the connectors have become loose and corrosion has set it. You should be able to drive around the entire cable system and not hear anything from it. Where there is leakage, you could cause problems to the viewers when you transmit. If the signal leaks out, it can also cause a signal to leak in. As such, you could be heard on the TV.

[lukek987]

Thanks again for the information I started looking on the internet to find people with similar problems because we are to the point that officers lives are in danger. I am going to speak with our radio people and let them know or read the comments posted and see what they and hopefully we can get this fixed.

[Bill_G]

On this kind of enforcement, Father Clear Channels loves to do his work. CATV leakage is relatively easy to locate especially if there is a direct hit on a licensed radio channel making it simple to isolate and correct. However, their investigation may not be able to do anything about the co-channel users 50 miles away. And they certainly will not do anything about building penetration. That is outside their purview.

A couple comments about how you, a system user, should go about filing a complaint. Someone else is in charge of the system. Your actions will directly affect them, and depending on who they are, doodoo could roll downhill on your head. You should talk to your supv to see if he/she already knows about the problem, if corrective actions are already in the works, and what the ETA is to resolution. If you don't get satisfactory answers, then you should talk to your FOP rep to see if a complaint is already filed, what actions they are taking, and again what the ETA is for resolution. If they don't give you answers you like, then find out from your colleagues if they agree with you on how poorly the system operates, and if they are willing to cooperate in a formal complaint. In other words, be professional, observe the chain of command, ask questions first rather than stir the pot, and don't go this alone.

With tight budgets, the fix may not happen as fast as you would like. Sometimes the people who are in charge do not fully understand how far reaching a problem is. They may have been misinformed, and therefore the corrective actions they have taken so far are not enough. Make yourself known, and get to know them. Help where you can. Bring clarity to the conversation. And know when to back down.

[kb4mdz]

Tell us a little more about what 'recently updated all of our radio equipment' means; If you say ' with the exception of portable radios and car radios' that would mean to me, your infrastructure; repeaters & antennas & such.
Most of the time when I hear descriptions of problems with a system, people tend to use words that they have heard, but don't always use them correctly; bleedover, squelch, skip, IM, etc. A good tech will work to understand what the customer means by those words. I try to be a good tech, by asking questions. I can't fix what I don't understand.

Your statement about bleedover from communities 50 miles away in another state - then I want to ask, are they co-channel, and co-PL tone? Or co-channel, at least, but different PL tone, but you hear them when a mobile radio is in CSQ (carrier squelch; non-PL)?

And Bill_G is right too, move this up thru chain of command properly. Dot all your i's, cross all your t's, etc.

Our department recently updated all of their radio equipment with the exception to portable radios and car radios. We have the most problems with our Motorola brand HT1250 portables with transmissions breaking up or being garbled to dead zones in and out of buildings to not being able to receive.

[lukek987]

kb4mdz, we recently moved into a new department and even before the move which was two blocks away the radios were having problems. The company working on the radios would suggest that we need a product and it would work better so they would buy it and it would not fix the problem. So eventually they decided to upgrade from 2 tac receivers for a 25 square mile area to 6 tac receivers and they said this is definitely the problem and is going to make our signal output stronger. They also have bought new antennas thinking that would be the problem and were told some were to high and to lower them or some were to low to raise them and that did not work either. I am not sure about the PL tone stuff but if I take the mic off the clip I listened to a cable channel with no problem yesterday in part of our city. When we get next to the major interstate many times the radios just stop working and I was told that it was because the cable company is broadcasting such strong signals that it is overpowering but I thought the cable company ran through cable and are not broadcasting signals down the interstate. I will definitely take the advice and follow the chain of command. I don't want to step on anyones toes or get anyone upset I really would like to just address the cable leakage to see just how much that might be effecting the system. I know a couple of years ago we had a similar problem and this company said it was someone operating on a HAM radio and I guess they called the FCC but who knows.