Making a tone remote wireless

[JustinMoon205]

Have an application at work where we have a tone remote that is a direct line to an off-site communications console. The dispatcher uses this to "patch" users of the TRS to us to allow us to communicate with them. The TRS users utilize several different talk-groups that are "patched" to this tone remote line thru the dispatch console. We would like to have this communications capability in a handheld radio. We have asked for this from the communications center and were told that it cannot be done. The on-site communications person also seems to think that this cannot be done. It seems to me that if we have the audio path there to the tone remote, that we should be able to route that thru an on-site radio and out to a handheld radio to accomplish this allowing a half-duplex "patch" between an on-site handheld radio and the tone remote line back to the communications center. As I not correct?

A few things to consider.

1. We are not simply using a handheld on the TRS to accomplish this goal for a few reasons:
A: The users on the TRS are using 4 talkgroups on the TRS that are in-turn patched to us for communications. This would require scanning on the on-site handheld and switching talkgroups to communicate with the units in the field. This is not desired.
B: We, at times, utilize this tone remote patch to allow us to be patched to conventional channels, and to two other TRS that are not local. This makes in-building coverage to a handheld TRS radio at our site impossible. While the local TRS provides in-building coverage, the two others do not, nor do the conventional channels provide adequate in-building coverage for an on-site handheld.

2. We are not looking for any wide-area coverage. Coverage in-building of about 10,000 sq ft is sufficient. This can be accomplished using low power.

3. We are currently licensed for multiple UHF frequencies, including a business pool and a public safety pool repeater pair, that are not being utilized at current.

4. We have a UHF repeater, antennas, duplexers and UHF handheld equipment that can be used in this application if need-be. This equipment is currently not being used.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?

Thank you very much guys!

-Justin

[Bill_G]

So, you want everything that comes over that remote control to go out over a UHF channel, and vice versa - you want to be able to talk back through a portable to the remote to the trunking system? And your people say it can't be done? Sounds like part of the story is missing.

[JustinMoon205]

That is correct. Want to just "duplicate" the audio from the remote to a handheld radio for use on-site. To prevent the user from having to be at the remote to answer.

The patch between the tone remote line and the actual radio, as well as selecting the correct talkgroup or radio channel is made by the dispatcher on the other end, so the tone remote is a simple 1 line remote. From my understanding, and what I would imagine is that what is occurring on the dispatch end is that our remote line is just a "channel" on the console which in turn is "soft patched" using the console to the "channel" on the console that we want to communicate on. This is accomplished manually by the operator / dispatcher.

The "transmit" audio from the remote does not have to pass to the on-site handheld, nor does the transmit audio from the on-site handheld have to be heard at the remote.....although this would be ideal if that did occur, it is not required.

The people from communications say that it cannot be done.

Our on-site maintenance person who handles two-way radios for our facility says it cannot be done.

Neither party knows that I have a clue about two-way radios. My job is administrative in nature. Just-so-happens the remote is in my department and used by my staff.

-Justin

[MSS-Dave]

Is the tone remote line you are using 2 or 4 wire? How is it hauled to the TRS ? lease line, fiber, microwave, etc?? And you are direct to the console (BIM in a CEB) and not to a radio parked on a TG that they patch to?

Have a couple of ideas but need to know the above...

Dave

[Jim202]

That is correct. Want to just "duplicate" the audio from the remote to a handheld radio for use on-site. To prevent the user from having to be at the remote to answer.

The patch between the tone remote line and the actual radio, as well as selecting the correct talkgroup or radio channel is made by the dispatcher on the other end, so the tone remote is a simple 1 line remote. From my understanding, and what I would imagine is that what is occurring on the dispatch end is that our remote line is just a "channel" on the console which in turn is "soft patched" using the console to the "channel" on the console that we want to communicate on. This is accomplished manually by the operator / dispatcher.

The "transmit" audio from the remote does not have to pass to the on-site handheld, nor does the transmit audio from the on-site handheld have to be heard at the remote.....although this would be ideal if that did occur, it is not required.

The people from communications say that it cannot be done.

Our on-site maintenance person who handles two-way radios for our facility says it cannot be done.

Neither party knows that I have a clue about two-way radios. My job is administrative in nature. Just-so-happens the remote is in my department and used by my staff.

-Justin

Let me ask the missing question here. Is the normal system a Motorola one with a CEB? Second question, do you have any spare BIM cards that will do tone control?

Have I pointed you in the right direction now and connect your UHF base repeater to the spare BIM card. You didn't mention if the UHF repeater had tone control or not.

Jim

[d119]

Seems to me that the easiest way to do this is to put up a repeater (so that it's 4W duplex) that is wirelined to the main console, and have them patch to that. You can then have a control station where the remote currently is, and talk into it from there with that. Or parallel a remote onto the line and retain your existing equipment.

[JustinMoon205]

Thanks for the responses! Great!

Dave: The tone remote line is a 4 wire line, I believe. I will verify later this afternoon. And it is sent back to the communications center by leased line, I believe. Again, can veryify that this afternoon. I guess it could be fiber, but I know that it is NOT microwave linked back in. It is my understanding that this is a direct link to the consoles at the communications center. I know that there is not a physical radio that is simply parked on a TG on our end,(not for this application anyway, there are radios, but not attached to this tone remote) just the tone remote. There is no "talk permit tone" when we key the tone remote and there is no "repeater tail" heard. The tone remote will also key while audio is being received, but will not override the receive audio, which also makes me believe that it is, indeed, a direct link to the console. We do have a radio for another TRS on our end that is parked on a TG and attached to a tone remote, but that is not the case for this one.

Jim: These are Motorola tone remotes. The TRS systems are all Motorola smartnet or smartzone systems. The conventional channels are analog. CEB and BIM cards, a lil bit outta my technical knowledge. Can you clarify? What we have on our end are desk set type tone remotes, not an actual console. There are several other radios, both conventional repeater and trunked at our location, all connected to tone remotes at the same single control point. However, we only want to be able to answer this one particular tone remote on the portable. The others are infrequently used, and would only need to be answered from the control point anyway.

Jim and Chris: The UHF repeaters that we have are currently not used for anything. There are actually 2 of them, one is on the air, the other is off the air. Both present, licensed, and functional. I do not know if either has tone control, I can find out. It would stand to reason that yes, they do, as they were used in a similar application and answered from a control point when they were used on-the-air. The business licensed one is analog UHF and has been replaced by using digital simplex 2-way radios or nextel units on-site. The business licensed repeater has on-site coverage. The UHF Med / Public safety licensed one is analog UHF and has been replaced by the direct tone remote control link to the trunked system via the communications center(the link that is the main subject of this post). The UHF Med licensed repeater has wide area coverage. Either repeater could be used for this application, I would think. And we do have all our UHF handhelds that were used with the business system still (Motorola GP350 and Motorola Visar units).....tho we would only require using one of them.


Thanks for the ideas and the help. I know this can be done. I just need a little bit to take back other than "I know this is possible". I want to be able to say "I know this is possible, and here is how we do it. X, Y and Z"

-Justin

[Bill_G]

Well, I cannot think of an off the shelf product that would do what you ask. It would need VOX to key a UHF base radio to rebroadcast trunking receive on the remote out to a UHF portable, and it would need to turn COR or VOX from the UHF base radio receiving the UHF portable into tone control to key the trunking system. You almost need a mini-console with crosspatch to accomplish this through the remote's leased line. OTOH, if you simply crossband two radios on a desk - one trunking, one UHF - then you could get the job done.

[wavetar]

It sounds pretty easy to me, I've done something similar with tone remotes & MTR2000's. You can either use VOX to activate the UHF base radio to pass the audio from the tone remote, or possibly if the remote has a receive indicator light you can use that to trigger the base. Coming back the other way, use COR out of the base to activate the PTT in the tone remote & feed your audio into the mic port...there's your guard tone. A few hours bench set up time & it's done.