Have a stack of low band Syntor X9000's on the bench for programming, one has a weird problem:
Programmed radio and control head, checked for proper operation, everthing works fine.
Remove programming cable, recheck, no display, no fail code, nothing other than the normal speaker "pop" on power up.
Plug programming cable back in, nothing.
Plug rib into programming cable, radio fires up, works 100%.
Remove rib, radio still works fine until power is cycled off, power back on and it is dead as a doornail until rib is plugged into the programming cable.
Repeated mulitple times with different control heads with same results.
Any thoughts?
TIA
Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
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Andy Brinkley
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Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
Andy / NC4AB
Re: Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
I'm certainly not Mike B and I may be way out in left field, but I get the impression that a necessary functional voltage that is required at whatever given points in the radio is not present, and the RIB voltage is maintaining those functional voltages as long as it's still present. That may be a little simplistic and overly hopeful in the troubleshooting regimen, but there's a somewhat similar malfunction with the 5V in mid and low power Spectras that are programmed through the 15 pin rear connectors, so the schematic may reveal what the paths are that might produce the effect. I'd probably check the Personality Board closely for proper voltages in all the right places with and without the RIB voltage connected.
curmudgeon.....and I like it.
Re: Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
In all the Syntor X9000 units and control heads I have played with, I have never seen that problem.
My first question is have you tried a different control head on the radio? Need to point the finger at the radio or the head. Then there is the control cable as a third option. Play musical chairs here and see if the problem follows one item.
I have had an issue lately in my radios here, I have both VHF and low band radios. Have found that in reading a radio and giving it the wrong band selection, it causes the VHF radio to act like the receive frequency is shifted. The RX audio is all distorted. Writing a good file back to the radio resolves the issue.
One other trick that shows up on used heads that have an unknown past use is that they have problems trying to program them. The way around this is to take and put them onto a Spectra. Make sure you read the radio with a good head, shut the radio off, swap the bad head in and power it back up. Then write back to the radio with the bad head. In most tries, this has brought the bad head back into a usable state. Then put the reprogrammed head on the Syntor X9000 and dump a good file into it. Again I normally read a good head and swap in the now recovered head and write back to it. Now I have another working 9000 head on the Syntor X9000.
Let us know how you make out.
Jim
My first question is have you tried a different control head on the radio? Need to point the finger at the radio or the head. Then there is the control cable as a third option. Play musical chairs here and see if the problem follows one item.
I have had an issue lately in my radios here, I have both VHF and low band radios. Have found that in reading a radio and giving it the wrong band selection, it causes the VHF radio to act like the receive frequency is shifted. The RX audio is all distorted. Writing a good file back to the radio resolves the issue.
One other trick that shows up on used heads that have an unknown past use is that they have problems trying to program them. The way around this is to take and put them onto a Spectra. Make sure you read the radio with a good head, shut the radio off, swap the bad head in and power it back up. Then write back to the radio with the bad head. In most tries, this has brought the bad head back into a usable state. Then put the reprogrammed head on the Syntor X9000 and dump a good file into it. Again I normally read a good head and swap in the now recovered head and write back to it. Now I have another working 9000 head on the Syntor X9000.
Let us know how you make out.
Jim
Re: Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
Not all of these suggestions seem to apply to your problem (depending on if I understood everything or not). Sorry, I'm just trying to cover all the bases.
The radio cannot work 100% with the RIB and programming cable plugged into the radio. The RIB shorts the microphone hi line to ground, so your Tx mic audio is dead if the RIB and programming cable is correctly configured for X9k programming.
Check the RIB battery and/or power supply. The radio drawer will provide power to the RIB through the programming cable. When using a RIB without any battery or external power supply (like a AC wall wart) I have corrupted the code plug by just unplugging the RIB from the programming cable.
Powering the radio on or off with the programming cable and RIB still attached also has a good chance of corrupting the code plug.
Check for any short to ground on the microphone hi line when the RIB is not plugged in. I had a programming cable with a mic hi short in the cable and it caused all kinds of random mysterious grief until the short was found and removed.
If this cable was used in an automotive application check the battery end of the cable for any signs of subtle corrosion. A corroded fuse holder connection may not pass enough current for normal operation. Also check the control head power wiring for problems.
Check the power supply voltages from the common circuits board on the bad drawer. An internal supply voltage might be out of regulation and too high or too low.
Ohm out the radio drawer main cable connector A- and ground pins from the connector pins to the circuit board. Maybe a PC board ground trace or cable pin has been burned and the RIB programming hardware is providing an alternate path to ground. Check the cable end connector for A- to pin 8 and pin 10 shorts for grounding. Check the radio cable power pins. Sometimes these come unsoldered at the A+/A- pins and cause really flaky problems.
A real long shot. Have you checked the radio drawer cable for positive ground modifications (you did not say if you swapped cables in your testing)? Have you tried a different radio drawer cable, making sure it is a negative ground drawer and cable first?
Check the personality board JU501-JU502 jumper setting and make sure it matches the U502 EEPROM 2k (24 pin) or 8k (28 pin) type. While you are there go ahead and check all these other jumpers for correct configuration.
On a known good head, if you do not see any display without the programming cable and RIB, this suggests something unusual like a continuous watch-dog reset from the radio drawer. The head is capable of displaying an error code when the radio refuses to talk to it, all on its own. The lack of display suggests something is upsetting the radio drawer HY-500 watch-dog circuit, then the watch-dog reset mysteriously goes away when the programming cable and RIB are attached. Otherwise, I would expect some kind of head display from a know good head after it powers up (this reset problem is the most common way of preventing the head from displaying anything). You could check the main cable J1 pin 4 Reset and see if it gets stuck or constantly cycles in reset up until the RIB is plugged in. An oscilloscope works best for this check since the reset may cycle on and off at a frequency a DC voltage meter cannot detect.
If the common circuits board power voltages are normal and everything else checks out, then it must be the radio cable or personality circuit board. If your personality board has some kind of subtle damage, you might need to drop in a replacement personality circuit board and redo the adjustments, or trouble shoot the existing board.
The radio cannot work 100% with the RIB and programming cable plugged into the radio. The RIB shorts the microphone hi line to ground, so your Tx mic audio is dead if the RIB and programming cable is correctly configured for X9k programming.
Check the RIB battery and/or power supply. The radio drawer will provide power to the RIB through the programming cable. When using a RIB without any battery or external power supply (like a AC wall wart) I have corrupted the code plug by just unplugging the RIB from the programming cable.
Powering the radio on or off with the programming cable and RIB still attached also has a good chance of corrupting the code plug.
Check for any short to ground on the microphone hi line when the RIB is not plugged in. I had a programming cable with a mic hi short in the cable and it caused all kinds of random mysterious grief until the short was found and removed.
If this cable was used in an automotive application check the battery end of the cable for any signs of subtle corrosion. A corroded fuse holder connection may not pass enough current for normal operation. Also check the control head power wiring for problems.
Check the power supply voltages from the common circuits board on the bad drawer. An internal supply voltage might be out of regulation and too high or too low.
Ohm out the radio drawer main cable connector A- and ground pins from the connector pins to the circuit board. Maybe a PC board ground trace or cable pin has been burned and the RIB programming hardware is providing an alternate path to ground. Check the cable end connector for A- to pin 8 and pin 10 shorts for grounding. Check the radio cable power pins. Sometimes these come unsoldered at the A+/A- pins and cause really flaky problems.
A real long shot. Have you checked the radio drawer cable for positive ground modifications (you did not say if you swapped cables in your testing)? Have you tried a different radio drawer cable, making sure it is a negative ground drawer and cable first?
Check the personality board JU501-JU502 jumper setting and make sure it matches the U502 EEPROM 2k (24 pin) or 8k (28 pin) type. While you are there go ahead and check all these other jumpers for correct configuration.
On a known good head, if you do not see any display without the programming cable and RIB, this suggests something unusual like a continuous watch-dog reset from the radio drawer. The head is capable of displaying an error code when the radio refuses to talk to it, all on its own. The lack of display suggests something is upsetting the radio drawer HY-500 watch-dog circuit, then the watch-dog reset mysteriously goes away when the programming cable and RIB are attached. Otherwise, I would expect some kind of head display from a know good head after it powers up (this reset problem is the most common way of preventing the head from displaying anything). You could check the main cable J1 pin 4 Reset and see if it gets stuck or constantly cycles in reset up until the RIB is plugged in. An oscilloscope works best for this check since the reset may cycle on and off at a frequency a DC voltage meter cannot detect.
If the common circuits board power voltages are normal and everything else checks out, then it must be the radio cable or personality circuit board. If your personality board has some kind of subtle damage, you might need to drop in a replacement personality circuit board and redo the adjustments, or trouble shoot the existing board.
Re: Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
I've seen this problem once, and it was due to pin on J1 not making complete contact. If you applied some twist to the connector, the radio would fire up normally.
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Andy Brinkley
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: FMR80D and a Motrac with Scan
Re: Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
I am leaning towards a cracked solder joint on J1. Got some time to mess with it today and it appears it is sensitive to cable position.
I'm still bumfuzzled on how the rib being plugged in would allow the radio to power up.
I'm still bumfuzzled on how the rib being plugged in would allow the radio to power up.
Andy / NC4AB
Re: Wierd X9000 Issue - Attention Mike B.
The RIB interface cable may be providing a missing ground through another contact, which when removed, allows the bad connector to upset the operation of the unit.