Tone Remote Function Tones

[FMROB]

In an effort to not sound completely retarded, does anyone have a list of standard console function tones. For example, I know motorola tends to use 1950 - 1850 - 1350 - 1250, but I think that will only yield 8 channels for multi channel select. I am mainly looking for how zetron consoles funtion out of the box for 16 channel selection? is there a planned scheme. Is there a reason why the motorola skips around, and just doenst go straight down the standard function tone list?

For example, when we do some avtecs using CPI TTP216's, I usually just leave the factory setting of the enitre function list enabled, meaning the avtec will get set for 1950, 1850, 1750, 1650, 1550, 1450, 1350, 1250, etc and the user is able to select through all 16 channels (no monitor and using a cdm base radio).

Thanks, Rob

[Bill_G]

(snicker)

Been there. Don't have a complete list. Don't know if there is such a thing. I think some of it are vestiges of the old days when tone control was done with analog circuits - hi Q pass filters made of precision caps and coils and op amps. They needed some guard band to prevent falsing.

[kb4mdz]

There are a couple of lists;

Midian has one list:

http://www.midians.com/pdf/tone_signaling.pdf

You can see it's kind of 'open'

There's a Zetron Tone Remote adapter, think it's a Model 250; which is programmable for what tones make what functions happen; same with CPI TTP216; and of course the L3276 has some programmability to it.

I can forward at least the CPI manual if you want it, i'll have to dig for the Zetron to see if I have it.

[gtriever]

Rob, in my 30 years of two-way radio, the 8-channel scheme has always been more or less the "industry standard", and that's still the way we set up our equipment. I agree with BillG's thinking about the guard bands. I have some manuals for the old Zetron 4028 console, and will see what I can find for you about their function tone calls.

[FMROB]

Thank you all. I am just trying to see if I am "standardly" doing something wrong, lol. The days of most consoles only doing 4 or 8 channel selection are mostly long gone, especially with newer IP consoles.

So, would any other radio tech scream too loudly if they walked up to install where the console changes through 16 channels and the tone remote adapter and console go straight down the FT list? I am doing something wrong.

If I were to base it on the 1950 - 1850 - 1350 - 1250, how would I even get to 16 channels.

Mind the fact that most of the time we are talking about control radios in dispatch centers that we program mutual aid or surrounding departments into so the dipatcher can listen to whats going on around him.

Thanks, Rob

[gtriever]

Please excuse the typo in my first post; I have manuals on a 4024. Anyway, from the Tone Remote Function Definition (Appendix A-1), Zetron only defines up to 8 frequencies for Tone Remote, with anything else being a Custom Tone configuration. Keep in mind this is from 1994. They're listed as below:

2050 PL Monitor
1950 F1
1850 F2
1350 F3
1250 F4
1150 F5
1050 F6
950 F7
850 F8
1750 --
1650 --
1550 RPT OFF
1450 RPT ON
750 --
650 --

As far as your last question, I don't think most techs would have a problem with a 16-channel frequency scheme as you suggested, providing it were well-documented and in a place where the tech could easily notice it. Otherwise, the tech might be chasing his tail a bit trying to figure it out.

[Jim202]

Just so you don't stumble and end up scratching your head. If by some chance you end up with a Motorola consolette radio as one of your tone control radios, be aware that Motorola screwed the pooch on that one with the channel stepping. Console tone F3 is really F7 in the radio and console tone F4 is really F8 in the radio. Console tone F7 is F3 in the radio and console tone F8 is really F4 in the radio.

First time I ran into this out in the field it blew my mind. Why would Motorola do such a stupid thing in setting up the radio. But that's how it is with dumb design engineers and cheap software people.

Jim

[gtriever]

Just goes to show that when it comes to "standard", sometimes it's not.
The Astro Spectra/XTL5000 consolettes are certainly a perfect example of that; so is M's configuration of the RJ45 wireline connection on the APX7500. Yet more good reasons to keep good documentation.

[d119]

Just goes to show that when it comes to "standard", sometimes it's not.
The Astro Spectra/XTL5000 consolettes are certainly a perfect example of that; so is M's configuration of the RJ45 wireline connection on the APX7500. Yet more good reasons to keep good documentation.

On the subject of the APX 7500 Consolette RJ45 connector pinout... Hahahahahaha *snort*

Same deal with the f___ed up USB programming of the wireline card... STUPID.

[talviar]

Just so you don't stumble and end up scratching your head. If by some chance you end up with a Motorola consolette radio as one of your tone control radios, be aware that Motorola screwed the pooch on that one with the channel stepping. Console tone F3 is really F7 in the radio and console tone F4 is really F8 in the radio. Console tone F7 is F3 in the radio and console tone F8 is really F4 in the radio.

First time I ran into this out in the field it blew my mind. Why would Motorola do such a stupid thing in setting up the radio. But that's how it is with dumb design engineers and cheap software people.

Jim

Jim,

You can probably blame Fayette County Pennsylvania for this. . . . . In the early 70's during a project to roll out a high band police communications network in Western Pennsylvania, Fayette County Sheriff's dept gave some very unique design requests to Motorola.

At the time the industry norm was for 2 frequency control either via DC or Tone using 1950 and 1850

Fayette County Sheriff's office wanted 5 frequency control and ability to monitor all channels without using a scanning receiver as when the receiver was locked on a channel, traffic could be missed on the other channels.


Motorola's solution was for 4 frequency control using 2 base radios and the creation of the first T44R base station (4 channel transmit tone remote, 4 receiver base station)

From what I remember reading in our archives they had problems with tone falsing on 1750/1650 and went to 1350/1250 for f3 F4 to make things work. Had they been able to make 5 freq tone remote work they probably would have. Working with the local techs though, they opted for 2 bases due to the environment where the base radios were located. Tower site was and still is very difficult to get to in the winter (2-3 months of limited to no access due to snow) 2 bases with the primary channels duplicated on both base stations allowed them to switch essentially to a back up base in the event of a failure on the primary.

Remember, there almost always is a method to the madness! And it is confusing as all hell when trying to figure it out from today's perspective!

And for the records, My Spectra Consolette has the following tone assignments.

F1-1950
F2-1850
F3-1350
F4-1250
F5-1550
F6-1450
F7-1750
F8-1650

I believe this is what is referred to as the "Motorola Standard" for 8 freq tone control

[FMROB]

Thanks all for the reply. Talviar, that is a great bit of history to make sense of it. It seems that there is really no concrete standard for this, but that is ok.

With using most consoles, specifically the avtec going straight down the line of 1950, 1850, 1750, 1650, etc and using the CPI tone remotes I have never really noticed falsing issues changing 16 channels. Now, I can't say the same for the GaiT*** or the motorola branded tone remotes, which I have never, ever liked. From the poor audio to many issues with falsing and mysterious channel changing.

Any way, how did the T44R and the like numbering scheme go. Is there a complete list of those options.

Thanks, Rob

[talviar]

T4R4 would be a 4 channel transmit, 4 channel receive
T44R would be a 4 channel transmit, 4 receivers
Part of the numbering scheme used to differentiate the bases. . . Some of what we are runnign today are T33R (3 channel transmit, 3 receivers) (although our transmitter is a Quantar and supports more. . . .)

Those aren't really options or model #'s just ways of expressing quick/easy what is at the other end.