Saber I VSLEP question

[saberthree]

I've been reading up that VSLEP radios are basically unmonitorable from scanners because the coding is proprietary? Does this apply to motorola saber I specifically? I bought a few of them years ago, but they stayed in the closet until recently. I am going to a dealer soon to read the code plugs to make sure I dont have them in any frequencies that are not within ham, and potential interference. Ive taken them apart and checked a few numbers. I have at least confirmed that they are in the 403-433 government band split so I can use 420 MHZ and up on this radio. At the moment, I am not concerned with programing them to repeaters, I have other radios for that. I just want to program them in the 420-430 range for general talk around. My big question here is, if it is indeed VSLEP capable, do I have to edit that in RSS to use VSLEP modulation? or is it strictly VSLEP? If I am able to to change the modulation, I would like to program them most to analog so I can use them to communicate with my other radios and a select few channels to be discreet. Since VSLEP is a form of modulation and not encryption I am assuming this would be ok? any help and insight would be appreciated!

[KG4INW]

It sounds like you're talking about old regular analog only Sabers and not Astro Sabers which are the only ones capable of digital (VSELP or IMBE P25). As such, the UHF radios came in two distinct splits, 403-470 and 450-512 MHz. The old Sabers were split up among narrower ranges like you describe.

If they are Astro Sabers, if they are flashed for VSELP, then yes, you just configure them in CPS (old AS can use RSS but why would you want to when CPS is available?). It'd be either analog or digital. If you're in the US and want to use these on the amateur band, no you can't use VSELP because it's not an open protocol and is therefore prohibited.

[escomm]

If you're in the US and want to use these on the amateur band, no you can't use VSELP because it's not an open protocol and is therefore prohibited.

[citation needed]

[KG4INW]

§97.309 RTTY and data emission codes.

(4) An amateur station transmitting a RTTY or data emission using a digital code specified in this paragraph may use any technique whose technical characteristics have been documented publicly, such as CLOVER, G-TOR, or PacTOR, for the purpose of facilitating communications.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... .6.4.159.5
Did Moto ever publish their old Astro specs?

[escomm]

(b) Where authorized by §§ 97.305(c)
and 97.307(f) of this part, a station may
transmit a RTTY or data emission
using an unspecified digital code, except to a station in a country with
which the United States does not have
an agreement permitting the code to be
used. RTTY and data emissions using
unspecified digital codes must not be
transmitted for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of any communication. When deemed necessary by an EIC
to assure compliance with the FCC
Rules, a station must:

[d119]

We all know where these types of discussions end up. Everyone's an armchair cop, everyone has their own opinion, interpretation, etc. Fact is, plenty of people are using NXDN, P25, D-STAR, AMBE, DMR, and a plethora of other digital voice modes on the amateur bands. VSELP is no different. Before this gets out hand, and for the benefit of everyone on the forum, the legality discussion ends NOW.

Back to the OP's question, it sounds like you have an analog SABER I, which does not support digital operation beyond CVSD encryption (IF you have a "SECURENET" version of the radio, not all are), which sounds so bad you wouldn't want to use it, not to mention it's encryption, and as such requires a keyloader to load the keys into it.

You need an ASTRO Saber in order to use the VSELP mode. And without getting into technical discussion about it or breaking the rules of our forum, an OLD one at that.

[saberthree]

I wasnt too sure if the old Saber Is were capable of VSELP, thank you all for clearing that up. As far as figuring out about VSELP legality on ham band, thats a tough call. I know here in Cali we are seeing P25 repeaters coming up in our area, not alot but I am able to access 1 in the right conditions (62 miles with 2 watt UHF radio) So I tend to agree with d119, it may be frowned by the old school guys but its becoming more accepted.

My saber I is securenet capable, I do have the keyloader but I believe that is probably not a good idea...maybe when the world ends thats a different story.

I do have one old Astro Saber, but it only has a 512K board so it wont do P25 (at least not as good as a 1 meg board)

I dont know why I like the sabers and astro sabers so much, just something about that radio I love. It doesnt compare to the PRC 152 or PRC 148 that I used to use but thats a different era radio.

[escomm]

To be clear: There is nothing "illegal" about running VSELP on amateur frequencies. Using encryption such as DES, AES, DVP, DVI, ADP etc is not compliant with the rules. Simple digital modulation is fine. You will need an Astro Saber to use VSELP. Any other Saber will not support VSELP