Batboard

Is anyone contemplating coming to Dayton?? I'd be intrested in picking up one or two from someone at Dayton - kinda like a "relay"... I just can't make another trip all the way to NJ to get another machine..

What's the matter, Mark? Not up for another road trip?

John
N1OTY

Maybe, if I had some way ot get it/them back here. I had to beg a ride the last time...

Of course, my son now owns a 1989 Jeep Comanche pick-up, but I'm not sure it'd make the trip in one piece. hehehe

Besides, I'm going to Dayton next week, and I'm not sure my XYL would enjoy my trekking to the East Coast again so close to that.

Well, regarding the PA Alarm ("beep-beep") I was getting on my MSF - it appears to have resolved itself. I have noted that during the past several days, I have not heard any audible alarm come from the station, even after long QSO's.

I wonder if something like some residual oil in the duplexer cavities may have "evaporated" (if there is such a thing); or if operating the machine may have "set the tuning" the cavities; or if the PA is "happier" now, or what. I can't explain why, but the problem seems to have simply gone away...

Maybe these stations need a burn in period for things to settle in after they are initially tuned up. But I guess time (and warmer temperatures) will tell for sure whether this is resolved.

Hope to see some of you at Dayton! 73!!!

You just know that the problem will be back sometime, and it may result in a lot less output power.

Bob M.

I just wanted to let everyone know that Mr. Umberger is now reneging on the $50 per repeater price. We were going to haul away another 16 units, and an associated group in Mass was going to grab another 14 or so, but we just received an email from Umberger that he now wants $100 per machine. We've cancelled our trip to NJ.

John
N1OTY

OK -- "enquiring minds want to know"...

In the photos from the first trip to New Jersey, there is one with Tony standing in the back of a pick-up truck. Who is standing (wearing a yellow shirt) to his right? Is that John N1OTY, or who? If that's not John, can someone indicate to me who John is in the group photo? (Maybe we should identify everyone in that photo?) Of course, I'm the guy wearing the PACKERS coat... <BSEG>

Sorry - "CRS" hits me REAL bad at times and I'm trying to recall who all was there that day.

Many thanks!

The guy in the yellow shirt is Dave Rezendes, KA1DTA. In the group photo, I am behind you on the outside without the facial hair.

John
N1OTY

I'm the dope holding the camera, so I didn't get in.....

Ahhh, ya snooze ya lose...

I suppose the rest of these have gone to the crusher...and they were in my backyard...

Aw, man! I was hoping I could get one of these.

Tony.RI said "Aw, man! I was hoping I could get one of these."

How badly do you want one? There was a guy in Pennsylvania who bought one, put it in his garage, and has decided to unload it for what he paid plus the transportation, which is a fair deal. You'd have to go pick it up and do all the rest of the work needed to make it a stand-alone repeater. It was still available 7/15/08.

Contact me by PM for more info.

Bob M.

Did someone from Rochester NY try to call my cell last week? I saw the number had come up, but I had no name associated with it - and whoever called left no message...

If so, please try again.

Nope, not me at least.

Still got some noise here on 927.4975. Got a new duplexer tuned up to try both 927.1375 and 927.9375 and see if we can run away from some of the noise here.

A second site is prepared for machine two and I expect to have it up by the end of Aug...


I hope all the other sister machines are doing well.....

Mine is doing just fine, expecially since I added the new antenna I picked up at Dayton. I have had one guy get in from as far away as 50 miles to the West, and from downtown Chicago. He is running a Spectra in his mobile. I've been able to bring it up from as far away as 22 miles with an HT in my car.

Thing is, I don't think it's hearing as well as it can or should! I can only imagine how well it will hear if/when I can get the bugs tweaked out!! But maybe noise floor wil be the limiting factor - it's at an "old folks home" and I'd be willing to bet they have some 900 MHZ cordless phones around there. I kinda wonder what happens when one of them is on their phone and the machine goes on-the-air...

BTW Mark, after Umberger reneged on the $50 per unit deal, our group dropped out and waited. We ended up getting a bunch more at $33 per repeater, plus a slew of free spare parts before they went to the crusher.

John
N1OTY

$33 per unit?? Wow!! For that price, I might have taken another ride East!! Then again, maybe not - the XYL is complaining already about the spare unit in my garage...

Oh well, my loss and your gain! Have fun with them, John!

Hey guys,

I need to identify two guys in the group photo from the first NJ trip. I need to get the names/callsigns of the two guys in the middle of the front row.

Thanks,
John
N1OTY

Red hat KC2PUD Tim, and the guy to the right I think was from maryland. I took the picture and can send them to anyone who wants the original pictures.

Two are in service here in Rochester on 927.1375 and 927.5875

Also, we moved the machine on 927.4875 that had spread spectrum noise in it. We move it down to 927.1375 and it works very well.

Anyone have input on running pre-amps with them? I don't have any experience with them and wanted to try an ARR (Advanced Receiver Research) Model P900VDG. It would be installed between the duplexer and reciever. Any idea what i'm to expect? Good, bad , indiferent?

The ARR preamps have about 16-17dB of gain. That's WAAAAAAAAAAY too much on any band for a single receiver. You should add a 10dB coaxial attenuator (pad) to the output of the preamp before feeding it into the receiver. This will give you 6-7dB of gain, which is about all the receiver can tolerate or effectively use. If you have any additional bandpass filtering on your system, put it ahead of the preamp. You just want enough gain to compensate for losses in the coax, any filters, or duplexer, yet still provide some actual signal improvement.

With a metering panel attached to the receiver, check the limiter/IF signal (M2) with the receiver antenna attached. Then go ahead and add your preamp. Add sufficient attenuation so you see at most 1uA increase in the noise level on M2. Any more than that will make the meter happy but the receiver will just hear more noise. You will see a big improvement with the bare 16dB gain preamp if you measure/test it with a signal generator, but not when you put it on the air with full gain.

I've got one 900 MHz repeater with a Wacom 687-3943 as a duplexer, and the receive side has an ARR preamp followed by a 10dB pad feeding a MaxTrac 800 MHz receiver with 915 MHz front-end filters. Works well. 100 watts coming out of the duplexer is a good match for a 12w mobile radio. If you can hear it, you can get into it. Of course a quiet site helps too.

Bob M.

n9wys wrote:$33 per unit?? Wow!! For that price, I might have taken another ride East!! Then again, maybe not - the XYL is complaining already about the spare unit in my garage...

Oh well, my loss and your gain! Have fun with them, John!

John,

2nd from the right in the front row would be me.

Dan
KA8YPY
College Park, MD

n1oty wrote:Hey guys,

I need to identify two guys in the group photo from the first NJ trip. I need to get the names/callsigns of the two guys in the middle of the front row.

Thanks,
John
N1OTY

John,

2nd guy from the right in the front row is me.

Dan
KA8YPY
College Park, MD

Thanks for filling in the blanks for me folks. I am preparing a magazine article about 902 repeater growth in New England and that first NJ trip will figure prominently in the article. That is one of the photo's I am planning on including with the article. I'll contact each person privately beforehand to get permission.

Thanks,
John

n1oty wrote:Thanks for filling in the blanks for me folks. I am preparing a magazine article about 902 repeater growth in New England and that first NJ trip will figure prominently in the article. That is one of the photo's I am planning on including with the article. I'll contact each person privately beforehand to get permission.

Thanks,
John

John, just as a point of interest what magazine would that article be for?

I intend to submit it to QST. I guess there is no guarantee they will publish it, but I'll try with them first. BTW, I intend to mention you for that critical point about U831 that you pointed out. Drop me a line via PM with your name/call/etc.

John
N1OTY

Well John, if QST/ARRL doesn't accept it, try CQ Magazine. They seem to be more "progressive" about ham radio from what I have read (I receive both magazines)... CQ is also quite critical of the ARRL at times on some subjects, such as their failure to recognize/endorse/support some of the "non-traditional" areas of Amateur Radio. (Like our use of 900 MHz, etc.)

That is the plan. I can only submit it to one publisher at a time though. If QST turns it down, I'll offer it to CQ. I hope to have it ready to go by the first of the year.

John
N1OTY

OK, just because....is this the longest running and most posts in batlabs history? And no run on rants!

How are all the other repeaters from this group doing? Did they all make it on the air? Are they still in project stage? I know of some. Have not heard about others. Two of the four we bought are on the air.

Is there a link for the 900 New England repeaters?

The N9WYS (Joliet, IL) and WA9FPT (Lake Zurich, IL) repeaters are both on the air. We bought a third station, but plan to use it for parts only. It's in pieces in my garage, but destined to end up in the basement. (My XYL is complaining because she can't get her car in the garage... I'm trying to get her to readjust her priorities.)

n1oty wrote:Thanks for filling in the blanks for me folks. I am preparing a magazine article about 902 repeater growth in New England and that first NJ trip will figure prominently in the article. That is one of the photo's I am planning on including with the article. I'll contact each person privately beforehand to get permission.
Thanks,
John

Hi John, Bob P W2YMM. Long Island NY.
I wasn't sure if you got me or not, I'm directly behind Mark N9WYS and between you and Tony NN1D.
Good luck with the article.
It was a fun project.
I really appreciate all the tips along the way by reading this thread as well as the website articles.
Mine is just awaiting a trip to the repeater site as we speak.

73
Bob P W2YMM

Hi Bob. Yup, I had your identification already. Thanks for posting though. Good luck with your MSF. We've got a few in operation and they are sweet. Phenomenal receivers.

John
N1OTY

Anyone got any spare U831 chips, I need 2 for the machines I got and am finally getting around to getting them on the air.

TIA

Dan
KA8YPY

ka8ypy wrote:Anyone got any spare U831 chips, I need 2 for the machines I got and am finally getting around to getting them on the air.

TIA

Dan
KA8YPY

If kcbooboo is listening, he may still have some... This was his post from earlier in the thread:

I bought 20 (minimum quantity) Xicor 9312UP chips to replace U831 on the six stations I got. I sold four more to someone else. I still have 10 of these guys. So far they're all working just fine.

I will sell them for $6 each, plus $2 s&h (padded envelope plus postage) for each order, if anyone still needs some. Contact me via PM for details. PayPal or USPS Money Order only.

Bob M.

As Mark pointed out, I've got some. The deal is still available. PM for details.

Bob M.

All the chips are sold as of 22-Jan-09. I have no more.

How many of these rigs are up and running?

I'm not sure how many are up on the east coast, but there are two operating in Illinois... both in the Chicago area; one Northwest (Lake Zurich) and the other Southwest (Joliet).

I want to say that between both group purchases, we collectively acquired about 30 stations altogether, but I know at least one that has been relegated to parts. (The guy I went in with and I bought three stations - we put two on the air.)

If you'd like an idea of APPROXIMATELY how many NJ MSF5000's are on the air in Massachusetts, go to www.nerepeaters.com and click on the 902 repeater link. The bulk of the repeaters listed are NJ MSF's.

John
N1OTY

I know this is a closely watched thread - please look for a new thread in this discussion group regarding a large lot of 900 MHz Spectra radios for sale. I just copied the information from another list.

Subject title: Motorola Spectras For Sale

73

n9wys wrote:I know this is a closely watched thread - please look for a new thread in this discussion group regarding a large lot of 900 MHz Spectra radios for sale. I just copied the information from another list.

Subject title: Motorola Spectras For Sale

73

Sorry guys - I was unaware that posting "for sale" items not offered directly be me is not allowed. I believe the listing/post will be deleted shortly, if not already gone.

Again sorry for my lapse.

Hi guys, I'm not sure if anyone is watching this thread anymore, but I wonder if some of you 900MHz MSF5000 afficionados can help me? I have a C85GFB5203AT (that I believe was from this NJ haul). I bought it from a ham in southern NJ, had it shipped here to Dallas, TX by tractor-trailer (for $300), and have fired it up. All the parts are intact physically. The display initially displays "5.52" and then "5.41". Then "- - -" then E.40, E.41, E.47 and E.49. I've taken out the Uniboard, checked the contacts, which are all spotless, and re-seated it carefully and well. No help. I've used RSS to change frequencies. No help. The MSF5000 Error Codes chart suggests that E.40 and E.41 indicate a bad Uniboard, and suggests to replace the Uniboard. Yikes! E.47 and E.49 Suggest that the TX VCO won't lock up. Have tried re-tuning the Tx VCO, even after 60 min of warmup. No help. I do have the HSO in the bottom tray.

Question is: I see replacement RF trays on Ebay for $149 shipped, apparently from the exact same model MSF5000. Is it most likely I have a fried RF Tray? Should I replace it? Or is there something less drastic I can try first?

Thanks!

I get some of the same errors when starting up - it takes a bit for the station to stabilize - mainly for the HSO to stabilize. Are you using the Motorola HSO or an aftermarket one? (Motorola's HSO takes more time to stabilize than the one I am using...)

Have you aligned the station as per the manual? If not, you may still be off a bit in tuning the VCOs to the proper settings. The E49 code refers to the RX VCO - not just the TX side (which is E47).

Thanks, Mark.

It took several days for my post to get approved and appear here. In the meantime, I was hard at work. What I found was that though the HSO unit had 13V going into it via the moto cable from the interconnect board, the actual 14.4MHz synthesizer tray did NOT have any power going to it at all! Thus, though I did have a good 5 MHz signal coming out of the Motorola HSO unit, nothing was coming out of the tray at 14.4 MHz.

So, I soldered at 2-conductor power jumper from the power input of the HSO directly to the power input of the Synthesizer Voltage Regulator board under the synthesizer tray, and ...voila! Within 10 minutes, all the error codes went away!

I guess I erred in just assuming the HSO tray was completely functional, and it wasn't. Good lesson learned: before starting ANY work on the MSF5000 for 900 MHz, make sure that the HSO is operational, and that the 14.4MHz synthesizer board has power!

Now, have the transmitter fully aligned. Am just a bit flustered that I can only get the reciever to break squelch at 0.5 uV. It must be more sensitive than that. I went through the full alignment as specified in the manual, even using the RF probe in the preselector jacks, and the 2419 high-end meter panel.

I'm injecting the signal from my IFR1200S directly into the reciever antenna port on the junction panel. Should I inject directly into the reciever instead?

Larry.

Well, more hard work, and reading and searching the board here, and guess what...It was the EEPOT's for the Receiver and repeater Squelches! Now receiver breaks squelch at 0.16 uV and can achieve 12dB SINAD at 0.30 uV ! So the tuning was all OK after all. (I'm stuck with the service manual for the CLB version that doesn't use EEPOT's). (Anyone have the 1092E-O5 manual they'd like to sell?)

Anyway, thanks again Mark for your help and suggestions. Soon, this beast should be on the air.

Larry.

Larry,

Glad to hear you were able to work this through. I think you'll find the MSF5000 to be well-suited for Amateur 900 MHz applications... I run one in NE Illinois (Joliet, about 45 mi. SW of Chicago) and I cover a good portion of NE Illinois. I've even had one report from a ham who was able to get in from NW Indiana... not too bad (IMHO) for a single-site operation. IF I had the budget, I'd have multiple receive sites, but..............

Have fun!

Mark, will be in Chicago Nov 9-12th. If I bring a 900MHz handheld, will I be able to get into your machines from my hotel at McCormick Place?

N5LS wrote:Mark, will be in Chicago Nov 9-12th. If I bring a 900MHz handheld, will I be able to get into your machines from my hotel at McCormick Place?

Wow - probably not. Downtown is a place full of tall buildings, and 900 is line-of-sight. I've made it into the mahcine from a mobile in spots downtown, but coverage there is VERY spotty. You might be able to hear it, but 4W won't get you in from 40+ miles away... Sorry.

n1oty wrote:I called Ron Umberger today at his Florida office. I have good news for any Batlabbers who missed out on the Feb 8th event. The remaining repeaters have NOT been moved to Florida. They have been moved to another facility in NJ. I understand that it is in northern NJ and it is a recycling facility called Newtech. I confirmed that Newtech has a web site. I tried to call them just now, but they are apparently closed for the day. The web site lists a phone number for this facility of (732) 469-9774. Mr. Umberger is still willing to sell repeaters. He is willing to take $100 per unit if the group purchases 20 or more. I've got plenty from the trip on the 8th, but I know some of you folks missed out. I get the impression that there is enough time to put together a second "event" if someone wants to step up and coordinate the next affair.

John
N1OTY

... a voice from the past...


Haven't posted on the site for a while, but still lurk occasionally.
Re-reading the MSF thread here and came across a 'small world-6 degrees of separation" item.

I started this thread, and the radios in question ended up at a place called NewTech.
Strangely enough, my son,who was 9 years old when the thread started, works part time for NewTech. I'll have to ask him if there are any old Moto cabinets in a dark corner of the warehouse.

And the utility that started this all with the quantar upgrade?
They're in the middle of a complete system upgrade to P25 phase 2. Still in 900mhz.

Guess that means some quantars are about to hit the streets.....

I see my Thread notifications are still on My MSF's are still working well after all these years, And it was a nice learning experience.
73 Bob W2YMM

I will take one off your hands if its still available, I will come and get it if thats ok?