Batboard

ASTROMODAT wrote:As a matter of fact, with the latest firmware load, I'd say the PRO-96 sounds noticably BETTER than the XTS-5000 on IMBE conversations as the AGC performance of the PRO-96 is much better, and the IMBE recovered audio is much crisper. The ONLY issue is that the audio power level capability of the PRO-96 is not quite as loud as I'd sometimes like it to be, but this is not a major issue, IMHO.

For $500 brand new (and "they" keep saying it's going to soon drop), how can you possibly justify the cost of a legit XTS-5000 (equipped with IMBE) over the PRO-96?

Then again, individual opinions are what make the world interesting, so Enjoy!

I believe you that the quality is better, without having heard it. Just the maximum volume and the immense distortion at higher volumes is it, what drives me crazy with all the consumer electronics. Only a few $ more for a better speaker, a better amplifier and some acoustic design, and the scanners or ham handhelds would be just fine for everydays use.

Regarding the costs of a XTS5000, it is absolutely overpriced. The much cheaper waris radios perform almost as good (of course just analog, and only when viewed without the prejudices against them). Seems the same with the german BOS radios, the radios used by police, rescue and fire brigades. In earlier times they had been expensive because they were exclusively developed for their needs. Nowadays the hardware ist standard (jedi or waris), just a modified firmware, and they are still expensive. The XTS look aimed to the official/governmental users in the US., they love them and buy them in huge amounts without looking at the price, so they are expensive. Period.

I have been following this thread with interest, as I originally intended to set up a radio to monitor an 800 Mhz trunking system, and instead went for a scanner instead (it took 3 tries to obtain one that held up).

Right now, you can buy a PRO-96. Want to make a bet that the FCC will soon require trunking/P25 capable scanners to "ignore" certain talkgroups in order to obtain type certification?

It happened with Analog scanners being cellphone blocked and RF Amps capable of 11M operation....

Martin

spareparts wrote: Want to make a bet that the FCC will soon require trunking/P25 capable scanners to "ignore" certain talkgroups in order to obtain type certification?
Martin

I kind of doubt that the FCC will do that as this would dictate the number of tg's that would be unmonitorable and would remove an agecy's ability to design it the way they want. If an agency needs to be stealth they will buy encryption.

KS4VT wrote:I kind of doubt that the FCC will do that as this would dictate the number of tg's that would be unmonitorable and would remove an agency's ability to design it the way they want. If an agency needs to be stealth they will buy encryption.

Already happened with AMPS cellphone and scanners. Instead of "fixing" the networks, IE adding encryption or letting the consumer know about the issue, the cellphone lobby / FCC forced the scanner manufacturers to disable coverage in order to obtain type certification.

It's happening again with the Tuner cards for PC's being forced to honor the copyright flag in the data stream or not be allowed for sales in the US.

Not having intimate knowledge of the guts of type II trunking - how difficult would it be to require that the scanner ignore all tg's with a particular hex character as the first position?

Martin

Not a chance of that happening, spareparts. Of all the things to worry about, that's not one of 'em.

the point I was trying to make before.. if you have a radio that DOES NOT TRANSMIT, UNLESS REQUESTED TO DO SO BY THE SYSTEM.. I'm NOT talking about autoaffiliation.. I'm talking about a guy sitting at a console or computer punching in a command to ALL radios that says" if you can hear this signal,respond with your ID#" .. OR the same guy "pressing a button" that says . " if you're not radio ID 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 , etc, than you are dead" .. THAT I see as illigal.. damaging property.. I am breaking NO laws by monitoring your system.. my radio is set up so as not to transmit and NOT auto affiliate so therefore NO law is being broken.. assuming it was programmed at a "moto authorized shop" because its not capable of INITIATING a transmission on a frequency you're not allowed.....if a person submits a reqeust that ALL units affiliate or ALL units other than A,B,C should all die.. THAT is BS.. because it's not initiated by the user of the radio.but by joe blow at his console.... it would be the same as that agency sending a "kill" signal to a scanner(I know a scanner can't do that, I'm saying for the sake of my argument) . . "just because" they dont want anyone listening... you GET MY POINT?? ...

I think you will have a hard time finding an authorized moto shop that will program an unauthorized radio onto a private system without authorization from the system manager/administrator.

Either way the radio is still programmed illegally (illegal copy of system key or with lab) and even if the radio was not set to TX, it still has the ability to do so. I slam unauthoized radios all the time and as I posted prior, can go back 4 months and can see unauthorized affiliation/channel grant requests.

Damaging property? I don't think so as I can bring the radio back to life if I wanted to. Its not permanent like rolling over it with a truck.

well then the question becomes is it WHO is authroized(Ie county PD or FF) or is it the RADIO thats authorized? law is around persons actions.. if I have a radio PROGRAMMED to transmit on a system for a user that IS authorized to transmit on that system.and he/she transmits .. is the radio illegal? I think not..

I own a company that specializes in communications and emergency vehicle lighting.... I program radios for firefighters or police officers with Identifiers .. so are THOSE radio's illegal too? because if I demo a radio and say.. "I got 5 different types of radio..here lemme program them up for you.. so you can play around with them for a bit" .. and they use EACH radio to call up a "10-97"(radio check) to find out which one they like. is THAT illegal? .. it comes down to the individuals AUTHORIZATION. if you are authorized to TRANSMIT..

like someone said before..FCC doesnt regulate rx'er .. except to make sure they cant listen to cellphones and dont cause any undue interference..so my 3k$ xts5k becomes a paperweight because "YOU" dont want someone listening to your system?

if someone is affiliating or PTT or interfering.. zap em all to hell.. but for someone to issue a "if you're not radio a,b,c the DIE" type of request is blatantly harmful to my equipment..

If you want to stay out of jail, get yourself a scanner, like a PRO-96. You'll save yourself a ton of money, not to mention the substantial attorney's fees if you try to do this and get caught by The Man. If you are not authorized to have an affiliated radio, then as Nancy used to say, "Just don't do it!" We can't understand why this message isn't sinking in, unless you have a wish to live inside of a Federal prison...

I been following this thread and thought I would add my opinion. I agree that the Pro 96 has great audio because of the AGC. The new BCD396T is suppose to also have AGC.

I know this is a Moto site but I thought you should know the EFJ 5100 Portable and 5300 Mobile both have Tx Inhibit in the software. If this box is checked then one cannot accidently transmit. Unlike the XTS5000, one can also use PTT Affiliate as well as auto on both Smartnet and Smartzone. Both radios have 512 talkgroups which is why most of you want a XTS5000. This will let you transmit on the zones that you are licensed to use while being able to monitor the others. Units made last year and before have XTS3000 Tx/Rec boards in them.

This is why competition is important.

M

We looked into the EFJ line. Turns out these radios are the exact same price as Motorola, but they ain't a Motorola.

Why would anyone in their right mind pay as much money for one of these as a Motorola?

Case closed!

ASTROMODAT wrote:We looked into the EFJ line. Turns out these radios are the exact same price as Motorola, but they ain't a Motorola.

Why would anyone in their right mind pay as much money for one of these as a Motorola?

Case closed!

They're fugly too... none of the Motosexiness seen in a radio like an XTS3000 or XTS5000!

Don't they use XTS RF boards or something, anyway?

I hear Thales is supposed to be coming out with 9600 baud P25 trunking eventually...

I thought this was suppose to a technical discussion on how to keep your
radios from affiliating and getting all of you in trouble. However, I have to disagree with those of you said the price of the EFJ 5100 and XTS5000 are the same.

At both list price and discounted on some of the big S&L contracts there is between $800 and $1000 price difference for the same radio. If you need me to prove it you, email me your list of options and I show you.

Otherwise EFJ would never sell any radios into this market.

M

In Kalifornia there are quite a few laws like the one below,

SEC. 52.44 titled "Willfully listening to Police and Fire Departments portable radio messages prohibited" makes it unlawful for any person to willfully listen by means of any radio receiving device located in or upon any vehicle to any official message which is being transmitted by the Police Department or Fire Department of the City of Los Angeles or any law enforcement agency over a radio transmitting station owned or operated by such city or agency.

Realistically, your probably OK if you have a scanner and LAPD (or other PD) pulls you over. But if your ASIII starts squawking away then your probably going to be sitting in a back of a unit for a while.

In this new ‘Post 9/11 era,’ one would be well advised to NOT carry a 2-way portable anywhere in public, whether it is concealed, or not.

Once someone in the public spots your commercial 2-way portable, prying eyes will be sure to call 911 on their cell phones, and report you to the authorities. Of course, there's always the chance that a Cop will see and/or hear your radio, such as when you're at Starbucks. Either way, unless you are an off-duty and/or undercover Cop, you're going to find yourself getting thrown into the back seat of a CVPI faster than you can start crying.

If you are a legitimate user, such as a plumber, etc. then you will be OK. But, if you are the typical WannaBe carrying around a commercial portable, get ready for your butt to feel those plastic rear benches in a CVPI. Even plumbers, and the like, very rarely (if ever) use 2-way radios anymore, since 99.99% of the old two-way stuff long ago went over to NexTel.

In today's uncertain world, one is much better off carrying a legit Radio Shack scanner. Police Officers will ignore these, as they know you're just an anemic WannaBe with one of these. Perhaps a solution will be to issue carry permits for 2-ways, not unlike a Concealed Carry Gun Permit. This would probably be a good thing, too, as one would need a clean criminal background check in order to get a carry permit for a 2-way radio (unless you already have a Ham license of General Class, or higher). Not a bad idea in today’s world of so many Bad Guys!

What about a HAM radio operator carrying an XTS3000 with Rx only police freqs - thats about as legit as it gets too - If the coppers take any action they could find themselves in an embarrassing position..

Probably OK as long as: 1) You've got a copy of your Ham License on you and 2) The radio can NOT Transmit.

ASTROMODAT wrote:In this new ‘Post 9/11 era,’ one would be well advised to NOT carry a 2-way portable anywhere in public, whether it is concealed, or not.

Once someone in the public spots your commercial 2-way portable, prying eyes will be sure to call 911 on their cell phones, and report you to the authorities. Of course, there's always the chance that a Cop will see and/or hear your radio, such as when you're at Starbucks. Either way, unless you are an off-duty and/or undercover Cop, you're going to find yourself getting thrown into the back seat of a CVPI faster than you can start crying.

If you are a legitimate user, such as a plumber, etc. then you will be OK. But, if you are the typical WannaBe carrying around a commercial portable, get ready for your butt to feel those plastic rear benches in a CVPI. Even plumbers, and the like, very rarely (if ever) use 2-way radios anymore, since 99.99% of the old two-way stuff long ago went over to NexTel.

In today's uncertain world, one is much better off carrying a legit Radio Shack scanner. Police Officers will ignore these, as they know you're just an anemic WannaBe with one of these. Perhaps a solution will be to issue carry permits for 2-ways, not unlike a Concealed Carry Gun Permit. This would probably be a good thing, too, as one would need a clean criminal background check in order to get a carry permit for a 2-way radio (unless you already have a Ham license of General Class, or higher). Not a bad idea in today’s world of so many Bad Guys!

Oh please give me a break. People like you scare me buddy. Now first off, having ANY radio with TRANSMIT CAPABILITY (trunked or conventional) on frequencies or systems you aren't AUTHORIZED IN WRITING is retarded and you deserve to get popped. There is NO LEGITIMATE reason to have any radio programmed with any transmit frequencies, tones, system keys etc UNLESS YOU HAVE AUTHORIZATION. This includes trunking radios programmed as RECIEVE ONLY because a SYSTEM KEY is required to program that sys in and REGARDLESS of one having legit RSS/CPS if YOU DON'T OWN THE SYSTEM KEY OR HAVE AUTHORIZATION you CAN'T PROGRAM on that system.

Now that that is out of the way,

HOWEVER, there is NOTHING wrong with having a "commercial radio" that is NOT STOLEN and using it on frequencies you do have a license for (such as ham radio or RECIEVE ONLY CONVENTIONAL PS WITH XMIT INHIBITED so long as no local laws prohibit monitoring of PS). Some of us like the quality, capability and advancement in technology commercial radios have and we use them on HAM frequencies ONLY. Some of us are members of CERT ACS units and require a radio that can run for 18-20 hours on a battery charge and sorry most of the ham gear can't cut it without carrying around a gel-cell pack.

So EXCUSE ME Mr.Nazi cop if you don't like my LEGIT VHF conventional XTS3000 programmed on HAM frquencies I am authorized to use. So now merely owning a commercial radio makes one a "terrorist" or "homeland security" threat? Oh please this country really has sold out to the control freaks. Never mind the 100,000 ILLEGAL ALIENS transgressing our borders and Osama and his pals south and north of us, WE GOTTA GO GET THAT HAM GUY WITH HIS HAMESXY XTS3000 TALKING ON THE LOCAL 2Meter machine.

Please someone rescue me from this madhouse....

ASTROMODAT wrote:Probably OK as long as: 1) You've got a copy of your Ham License on you and 2) The radio can NOT Transmit.

We (licensed amateur radio operators) are not required to carry copies of our license on us. We are required to operate our station in accordance with FCC rules.

I have only been asked maybe one time by a LEO about a VHF MTS2000 I had. First off, it was VHF ham and the LEO had an 800meg radio. He asked me what I was doing with it.

I said "talking on it like you do yours, I am a HAM"

he asked "so that is your ham radio sir"

"Yes officer"

he replied "wow, these are expensive"

my reply "yep, good stuff doesn't come cheap"

He went about his business, I guess when he heard the W4DOC repeater ID out of my radio and my friend come back, he figured it wasn't on his system and he could have cared less.

I am glad Georgia hasn't become some Nazi 3rd Reich territory (yet) like some places in this nation have.

Looks like we may have a candidate for the DHS Watch List right here!

ASTROMODAT wrote:In this new ‘Post 9/11 era,’ one would be well advised to NOT carry a 2-way portable anywhere in public, whether it is concealed, or not.

Once someone in the public spots your commercial 2-way portable, prying eyes will be sure to call 911 on their cell phones, and report you to the authorities. Of course, there's always the chance that a Cop will see and/or hear your radio, such as when you're at Starbucks. Either way, unless you are an off-duty and/or undercover Cop, you're going to find yourself getting thrown into the back seat of a CVPI faster than you can start crying.

If you are a legitimate user, such as a plumber, etc. then you will be OK. But, if you are the typical WannaBe carrying around a commercial portable, get ready for your butt to feel those plastic rear benches in a CVPI. Even plumbers, and the like, very rarely (if ever) use 2-way radios anymore, since 99.99% of the old two-way stuff long ago went over to NexTel.

In today's uncertain world, one is much better off carrying a legit Radio Shack scanner. Police Officers will ignore these, as they know you're just an anemic WannaBe with one of these. Perhaps a solution will be to issue carry permits for 2-ways, not unlike a Concealed Carry Gun Permit. This would probably be a good thing, too, as one would need a clean criminal background check in order to get a carry permit for a 2-way radio (unless you already have a Ham license of General Class, or higher). Not a bad idea in today’s world of so many Bad Guys!

This is absolutely ridiculous.

I carry a radio every day for use on frequencies I'm licensed for, and the trunking system I pay $30 a month for. I bought it legitimately, and paid for it with my own hard earned cash. I don't need to carry a permit for anything that is not restricted or illegal.

If a cop hauled anyone in for that (without lawful excuse, I might add), he'd find himself in very serious trouble indeed.

MattSR wrote:What about a HAM radio operator carrying an XTS3000 with Rx only police freqs - thats about as legit as it gets too - If the coppers take any action they could find themselves in an embarrassing position..

The copper would find himself lining up at Centrelink!

If any copper tried it on me - i'd ring a Federal Radio Inspector, who would quite happily come on down and put the officer in his place.

I know its happened once before to a mate with a Yaesu, and when the copper in question didnt co-operate and kept the radio in his posession, the RI started writing up a fine for the copper for illegally being in posession of Ham equipment without a license...

It wasnt long before the officer gave my mate his radio back and apologised...

I was driving around Canberra with a mate a few months ago. He has a VY Commdore sedan, with a VHF A4 Spectra head mounted on top of the dash in exactly the same spot as where the AFP put their W4 ASTRO heads.

We got pulled up at an RBT, copper looks in the window, sees the radio and waves us past

Of course. However, if you had a REAL Cop radio in there, like an ASTRO Spectra with a W9 head, all hell woulduv busted loose!

Very few cops would recognise the difference between the heads of a W4 ASTRO Spectra (like they have) and an A4 fleabay ham radio.

Ok, this has strayed way off topic. You can talk about getting busted with your Hamsexy radio over at the Batlounge.

Todd